Special Episode! AI in the Age of Abundance with Alexandra Merz (Ep 500)

I'm so excited to interview Alexandra Merz, the #teslaboomermama.  With international studies in London and Germany, she excelled as a fund manager in Paris, overseeing Europe’s largest investment portfolio. 

She founded companies in Berlin, the South of France, and now, the US - where she relocated via an E-2 Visa. Alexandra assists entrepreneurs from all over the world to invest and immigrate to the US, a fierce Tesla shareholder & advocate, and fellow Elon fan.

Follow Alexandra on X @teslaboomermama
Need help with Immigration and more? ✉ alexandra@L-and-F.us

Chapter Timestamps:

[00:00:00-00:01:31] Revolutionizing Production Costs

[00:01:32-00:06:05] From Black Forest to Tesla Shareholder

[00:06:06-00:09:31] The Tesla Epiphany

[00:09:32-00:13:47] Challenging Rating Agencies

[00:13:48-00:17:40] Tesla’s Misunderstood Innovation

[00:17:41-00:24:00] A Planetary Company?

[00:24:01-00:33:50] Deep Dive: Age of Abundance

[00:33:51-00:44:25] Disrupting Global Markets

[00:44:26-01:02:58] Optimus and the Future of Work

Special Mentions:

• Elon Musk, Tony Seba, Tesla, Inc. 
• Moody’s, S&P, BYD, CATL, Volkswagen, General Electric xAI

***

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Chapters

• 0:00 Revolutionizing Production Costs
• 1:32 From Black Forest to Tesla Shareholder
• 6:06 The Tesla Epiphany
• 9:32 Challenging Rating Agencies
• 13:48 Tesla’s Misunderstood Innovation
• 17:41 A Planetary Company?
• 24:01 Age of Abundance
• 33:51 Disrupting Global Markets
• 44:26 Optimus and the Future of Work

Transcript

[00:00:00] Alexandra Merz: America will not have to import goods from China anymore because we can produce them. Currently, the average production of any goods here in the United States takes about $70 an hour no matter what it is. With bots, you'll bring that down to $1. In China, the average price of production is $2. With a bot, they will bring it down to $1.

[00:00:21] Alexandra Merz: America will not have to import goods from China anymore because we can produce them. The end result will be a much higher.

[00:00:34] Axel Meierhoefer: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Ideal Investor Show, where as everybody knows, we always bring you great guests once a week at least. And today we have something special because today is the 500th episode. So anybody who's here from the very beginning, you have seen all the different things that we have gone through, and we have a special guest.

[00:00:51] Axel Meierhoefer: I'm super, super proud because we are fellow shareholders in Tesla. Alexandra Mez, Tesla Buma. Mama, welcome to the show. [00:01:00] 

[00:01:00] Alexandra Merz: Thank you Axel, and what a privilege and honor to be number 500. Thank you so much. 

[00:01:05] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah, I, I, some people might say that we planned it that way, but it literally is just in, in the seat.

[00:01:09] Axel Meierhoefer: That's true. So it's, it's very cool on the other hand. So we make an, make a big fuss out of it. Uh, Alexandra, before we talk about Tesla and all the things and retail investors and the things that you're famous for, tell the audience a little bit. Who is Alexandra Madz? How did you get to, and what are you doing and what is basically the story of you?

[00:01:31] Alexandra Merz: Wow. Well, so I'm 59 years old. That's gonna be a long story, but I'll try to make it short. Uh, I'm a mother of, well, five young adults now. Very proud of my children. Um, I'm German, as you can all hear. I come from the Black Forest Schwarz. But I grew up in a little town of three times, nothing. And um, my parents were always quite ambitious for me.

[00:01:52] Alexandra Merz: I was the oldest of, of three. They sent me to the United States when I was 15 for an exchange year. So my English got better. And then I studied in London [00:02:00] and in Germany at the, what is now called Ling, or whatever, I dunno what it's called anymore. But it was this European, uh, studies of be, which were, you know, very famous at that period.

[00:02:13] Alexandra Merz: And, um. After that started my job in finance at the Deutsche Bank in Paris, where I became very quickly a fund manager. I was initially the first year in the trading room and then became a fund fund fund manager, and then Commerce Bank in Paris hired me because they were actually managing all the Luxembourg funds out of.

[00:02:33] Alexandra Merz: Paris, but needed a German speaker and here I was, and that's how I got to manage the biggest European investment funds for Berg. I loved that. Did that for a couple of years, and one of the funds was rated by a rating agency called Moody's, one of the two big ones, s and p and Moody's, and then there's Fitch, and then their scope and some others.

[00:02:53] Alexandra Merz: And um. That's how I met Moody's. And then Moody's hired me from there and I became their VP [00:03:00] in charge of European fund ratings. I became senior credit officer during my career there. I was seven years there. Um, I was notably for the German speakers. They actually know me because I was in charge of the ratings of, uh, often a OB funds, open-ended real estate funds, which were the whole chapter of my life.

[00:03:16] Alexandra Merz: And I was a lot on tv, uh, of that. It was, it was something because we had to develop the whole methodology and, and get all that done. Um, at the end of Moody's, when I left them, I set up my own rating agency, which is part of what is now Scope, the European Rating Agency. I did that for three years and then sold my shares and left finance in 2007.

[00:03:37] Alexandra Merz: Finally thought I'd look after my five kids. My husband, thank Heavens, always did a very good job in, uh, in being the best father ever. And, uh, so we were living the South of France then. And for a while already, for seven years I lived in Paris and then since 2000 in the south of France in Muja. And uh, and I thought, well, what can I do now?

[00:03:56] Alexandra Merz: Right? I'm done my career, now my kids are [00:04:00] growing up. My kids very quickly felt that I should be much less involved and I thought I should be involved. And, uh, and so I thought, okay, how about I rent out our house for the summer? We, we usually did that and traveled. Rented out our, our home. Um, and my then accountant told me, well, you have to become a realtor for that if you wanna start renting out houses.

[00:04:20] Alexandra Merz: So I thought, okay, how do you become a realtor? I had no idea it was my husband buying the house. I, I was not even involved really into that. Um, and so I became a real estate agent and. Opened my own agency. And um, so first summer I had my house for, for rental. A couple of months later I had 40 houses for rental.

[00:04:40] Alexandra Merz: A year later I had 150 houses for rental and started selling houses. So between 2007 and 2014, I rented, I don't know, thousands of houses and sold hundreds of houses and we actually became one of the premier. Uh, real estate agencies in the south of France in that time loved it. I mean, I was always very professionally [00:05:00] driven and my husband kept on complaining to know my husband is French al Asian, and he, he had moved from the United States to be with me, and he kept complaining about how France is not what he wanted to be, and he really wanted to be back in the United States.

[00:05:14] Alexandra Merz: And so in 2013, we did a nice trip. Along the West coast and, uh, grand Canyon and, um, decided that we're going back to America. So I sold everything. And, um, we moved to Santa Barbara in 2014, so that's now 11 years ago. I needed a project because we needed to come here on E two Visa. So the E two Visa was to do consulting.

[00:05:38] Alexandra Merz: Financial analysis for certain type of investment visa called the EB five. I very quickly understood that this whole market was such a swamp that I didn't want to get into it. So I initially did mainly E two visas, but 400 e two visas for for clients. And then, um, I. Looked into EB two National Interest Table, which is a green card for entrepreneurs, and we've been [00:06:00] doing that successfully since 2019, helped about 300 people get green cards.

[00:06:05] Alexandra Merz: Our success rate is 99%, which is unheard of because we really do everything. And so very successful business. We're a five women shop. It's, it's my firm and um, and that's how I'm here. And then Tesla came and that's where we are. And 

[00:06:20] Axel Meierhoefer: when, when was that actually that. Well, I don't know if Tesla came or you became a shareholder in Tesla.

[00:06:27] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah. 

[00:06:28] Alexandra Merz: Better the second way around for sure. 

[00:06:31] Axel Meierhoefer: So what, so when did that 

[00:06:32] Alexandra Merz: happen? Well, I, when we moved to the us, my husband, who is uh, an engineer, wanted straight away, uh, an electric car. We tried in France having electric cars. They had the, but they had so much wait time and whatever, so we could never put a hand on it.

[00:06:47] Alexandra Merz: Um, and uh, so when we came here, we were looking for electric cars. Tesla was at the beginning, and it was mainly, you know, the, the s class and what we needed with all our kids was more, you know, bigger car and, and [00:07:00] less, less prestigious car. So the one we found was the BMWI three, which was this little city hopper that BMW did as a compliance car in California because any.

[00:07:10] Alexandra Merz: At that period, any car seller who wanted to sell in in California needed one electric car on the, on the bench. And so they had this cute experiment, which was really a great car, small range, but great car. So we had that one, and since we came, we needed to build up our credit, his history. So, uh, we leased it from 2014 to 2017, came 2017.

[00:07:33] Alexandra Merz: And I wanted a, a Tesla model three. I actually had a, a deposit down, but they were in production hell, so I still couldn't put a hand on a, on a Tesla. So we got a Chevrolet Bolt. Then it was not as cute as the BMW, but a larger range. So it it, it was a good workhorse. I'd call it as a car. It, it was fine. I mean, we're German, right?

[00:07:52] Alexandra Merz: We love our cars. We have our, I love our. Porsche and Mercedes and whatever. So there was that. So I came with a long history of [00:08:00] six years of electric cars and 30 plus years of having nice luxury cars in my life. Finally, in 2020, just at the moment of COVID begins and the lease was up off the bolt to finally put my hand on a Tesla and so we could test drive it.

[00:08:14] Alexandra Merz: We knew that the bolt would. You know, expire, the bold lease would expire in May. So we test drove a Tesla in March. It was those moments where everything was, um, you know, contactless where you just got a card and, and you know, picked up the card and got the car and whatever. So we did that a Tuesday afternoon.

[00:08:32] Alexandra Merz: I remember it because it was such a life changing thing. Um, got into the Tesla service center, picked up the car with the car, sat in the car. No. Remember, you know, I mean I had lots of luxury cars at six years of EVs started driving the car and I said, oh my God, this is it. And then also, remember I was a fund manager.

[00:08:51] Alexandra Merz: I was used to diversifying portfolios and I mean, you know, nothing more than 10%, the ones between five and 10%, not more than 40%, whatever. I had all [00:09:00] my rules, you know, hammered into my head. Yeah, a little bit like I was driving. It was crazy, right? I was driving with my husband in the car and I said. You know what, we're selling everything.

[00:09:10] Alexandra Merz: We're selling all our assets, and we're going all in on Tesla. And that was March 17th, 2020. And the next morning we sold everything and luckily it was the lowest point of COVID. And uh, and that was it. And we, uh, since then, all in Tesla investors and with all the ups and downs and heartbreaks and everything that comes with it.

[00:09:31] Alexandra Merz: Um, and, uh. The next day I woke up and I thought that was maybe a little bit courageous. How about you do a little bit more research? I mean, it's not as if I had not followed Elon and Tesla, but I mean nothing of the financial analysis I usually would do before I invest in anything. And so that's why I started.

[00:09:50] Alexandra Merz: Retroactively in hindsight, building up my conviction. And, uh, and I mean, it was, um, I mean, I, I never had [00:10:00] any regrets, but it was crazy. It was really as if I was, you know, guided to do it rather than thinking it through. But there, there we are. And more I learned more, I got reassured, but also more I realized things that weren't working right.

[00:10:12] Alexandra Merz: And one especially was the fact that the rating agencies. Remember, my career as a in a rating agency did still value Tesla as a junk bond. So my first public. Action. I was using a little old Twitter account I had that was actually called New to Santa Barbara, which I had done in 2014, which just was sleeping there.

[00:10:33] Alexandra Merz: I renamed it, we may get to the name later because it's so ridiculous. And uh, and I thought, okay, I have to start building this up and explained to people who I am and that this rating from Moody's and from s and p so ridiculous. We have to put pressure there. And that's how it started. And so I went from 20 followers to.

[00:10:50] Axel Meierhoefer: Let me just interrupt for a moment because I really want to make a point on that spreadsheet. I mean, this is probably how I first got to even realize [00:11:00] there's Alexandra out there doing this. Um, because I wasn't, I was the other way around. And, and I think what you just explained and, and described so far is a, if I may say a perfect example for emo emotional investment and it is 

[00:11:16] Alexandra Merz: crazy.

[00:11:17] Axel Meierhoefer: Um, that's one thing and, and not unusual in, not maybe in the extreme, a little bit unusual, but fundamentally not that unusual. But what I wanted to say is, I think this is and still is to this day, a great service. I, I believe you have. If I read the spreadsheet correctly or the way you publish it now, it is not just the ratings, it also shows comparison to other car manufacturers and their ratings and their numbers and so forth.

[00:11:44] Axel Meierhoefer: But that's how I basically first discovered you because you, you basically published this and I could until then, not really understand. How is it that the company, when you look at the financials, and I think this is pretty much still true in, at least in comparison [00:12:00] to other car companies, and I know we don't want to really see it as such, but if you really only look at that part, even that.

[00:12:07] Axel Meierhoefer: Basically no competition. The rating should be like AAA or something, if you know. 

[00:12:12] Alexandra Merz: Yeah, that's how they're trading actually. Yeah, that is true. I mean, Tesla is the real example that rating agency's value is just overhyped and there is no value anymore. Um, and you're right. So when I started doing these tables, I did two things.

[00:12:24] Alexandra Merz: I compared the top 30 mega. Caps. So the biggest companies in the world that are rated, because there are some companies that are not rated, so I took those out. But the ones that are rated, and I put in the five key. Parameters that rating agencies use to rate, right? So debt ratios, whatever. So I, I put all those, fund them out for all 30 mega caps and for the 10 biggest car makers that are rated there, again, the Chinese are not rated, so they're not in there and, and the field is moving.

[00:12:54] Alexandra Merz: So I do it every quarter. As soon as the results are about six weeks after quarter end. I do for the last quarter. [00:13:00] So there are now, I dunno, 10 or 12 of those tables out there. And, um. And I compare it to the ratings. Ratings move very slowly. I mean, some of those ratings changed over the last three years, but very, very few.

[00:13:11] Alexandra Merz: One that did change is Tesla because we finally shamed them enough after about three quarters that they gave us investment grade rating, which is still low, but whatever. But just for the fact. When Tesla does their asset backed with the leases because they repackaged the leases and put them in the market as a, as a bond issue, they get aa, they get AA conditions.

[00:13:33] Alexandra Merz: The little credit line that Tesla has, they hardly use, but they have one is AAA conditions. So the market knows Chasta, aaa, the rating agency still think it's uh, triple B. 

[00:13:47] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah, and I, I've oftentimes, and I don't want to necessarily go off in that direction with our conversation, but I've oftentimes wondered if this is one of those typical examples of.[00:14:00] 

[00:14:00] Axel Meierhoefer: The good old boys network, um, versus something innovative, something new, something that I would even almost go as far as saying they're not really understanding. I don't mean the financial part, but like a lot of the other things, how can a company be like an AI leader, an electric car leader and robotics leader, an energy leader, a lithium refining, and, and you can, you know, the whole list 

[00:14:23] Alexandra Merz: and hardly any debt.

[00:14:25] Axel Meierhoefer: No debt, and hardly any debt. Exactly. 

[00:14:28] Alexandra Merz: And, and there are actually a couple of subjects where unfortunately the rating agencies still have much too much power. What should have happened after 2008 where they were the main, the main issue, right? If they would've not rated all this crap aaa, we would've not gotten where we are.

[00:14:42] Alexandra Merz: Right? And, and, and that became clear in this, in those congressional hearings, yet the Obama administration at that PO moment just. It off, and, and that was a major mistake. They should have been just, you know, taken out and, and ridiculed and the whole. [00:15:00] House of cards that they've built up should have just collapsed at that moment.

[00:15:04] Alexandra Merz: And it did not. And that actually emboldened them, which is crazy enough because they realized they can get away with murder and it doesn't matter. So that's the the first point. The second point is that there is still the SEC clinging to some old rules of, oh, if you are a pension fund, and if you do that, you need to have so many AAA in your portfolio, whatever.

[00:15:24] Alexandra Merz: So there are old rules. That are completely redundant, but they're still there. And every time they promise us, oh, we're gonna check those out. Oh yeah, we're gonna do a hearing on them, Omaha. And then suddenly nothing happens anymore. So this has been going on for years. I've been watching this because, like I told you earlier, I left that industry in 2007.

[00:15:41] Alexandra Merz: There are good reasons why I left them, because I just saw it coming and, uh, and, and so. Now following this up 18 years, and still nothing changed, just shows you how slow that is. And that industry is so ripe for disruption. AI should kill them and will kill them just because there is, there's no [00:16:00] point that discontinues the way it is.

[00:16:02] Alexandra Merz: And it's purely political. It's purely political. Let me, let me give you another example. So s and p is very heavily. Involved also with the indices, right? You have the s and p 500, whatever. So when Tesla was supposed to be entered into the s and p 500 in 2020 s and p did everything to put it as late as possible.

[00:16:20] Alexandra Merz: You probably remember that, that drama. And now there is another drama coming that I predict is Tesla is currently in the discretionary goods with the GMs and whatever. With the Amazons meaning it is considered as a consumer good. That is fluctuating with consumer cycles, and that's the bucket. Obviously Tesla is one of the biggest ones in that bucket.

[00:16:41] Alexandra Merz: But, so when you have an ETF that does describe, uh, that does consumer goods, well, Tesla will be in it, but Tesla is not in the tech bucket. Right. That is the NVIDIAs of this world. And, and even Uber is in the tech bucket, but not, but not Tesla. So one moment, Tesla will have to change of buckets and it's actually [00:17:00] a a, a good long.

[00:17:01] Alexandra Merz: Discussion where it should go? Should it go to energy? Should it go to tech? Should there be a super bubble for ai? You know that, that I think we have to, but I can already promise you all by this is ripe orbit. You know, we're getting there. It will be very, very late because what will be the consequence that.

[00:17:18] Alexandra Merz: ETFs that are in the tech bubble. In, in, in that part of the, the market will have to massively purchase Tesla because, you know, it will just come in from one day to the other and they will all have to stock up on it. And s and p and their friends want to delay this moment the longest possible. And it's gotta make it much more difficult because the longer it it lasts, the more they will have to buy when it comes.

[00:17:40] Alexandra Merz: But again, it's them, you know, working against Tesla like forever. 

[00:17:46] Axel Meierhoefer: Absolutely. I'm, I'm very much with you, but I also believe this is a beautiful bridge, maybe unintentionally that you just built to bring us basically more to the, to the current times. Because one thing and anybody who [00:18:00] is, and I am, um, little bit more interested or at least equally interested in the macro picture that is going on.

[00:18:06] Axel Meierhoefer: If I'm looking at something like Huawei, I'm looking at something like BYD, I'm looking at Tesla as an an example, and I, I don't mean from the electric car perspective, but from what you just said about the s and p or similar indices. I personally believe, and you could add things like Nvidia, for example, um, to say, okay, shouldn't there be something like a multifaceted category?

[00:18:35] Axel Meierhoefer: Yes. If you, I mean the old, the olden times old, you know, I've been around for a few days as well myself. Um, there used to be a company called General Electric. That had, you know, engines and, and, uh, refrigerators and Exactly. And airplanes. And, and so there was like an example, and there were a couple other examples, but I don't think there ever was a multifaceted corporation bucket in [00:19:00] the s and p or any of these indices.

[00:19:02] Axel Meierhoefer: But more and more it seems like when you look at the big picture that we are going in the direction, and I think it's, and I would really like to hear your opinion about it, the confluence of technology. 

[00:19:13] Alexandra Merz: Yes, it is. It clearly is. And not only technology, because Tesla is so, is so special because they actually produce, right?

[00:19:22] Alexandra Merz: I mean, it's one thing, it's one thing what Apple has done. I'm not trying to diminish that, but they're not producing anything. They're subcontracting that, uh, any of the car suppliers that I know other than some of the Chinese, they don't produce, they do the assembly of the 10, 20, 30, 40,000 supplier.

[00:19:40] Alexandra Merz: Parts that they're getting. So the Tesla is one of the most vertically integrated and now even going into refinery and battery production and what whatnot. Um, so this multifaceted basket where it should be, um, would have to have. [00:20:00] Raw materials in it would have to have energy in it, would have to have tech in it, would have to have software as a service in it would have to have obviously also the whole vertical integration of manufacturing in it.

[00:20:12] Alexandra Merz: And it would be a very lonely bucket because there are not many others that have as many. Facets into that mul multi-facets. It's, it's really very, very special. And I think what the argument is gonna be of s and p, while we're not moving them out of the consumer discretionary bucket until one of the others is the clear leader, but that approach is completely wrong with Tesla because all of them will be leaders.

[00:20:37] Alexandra Merz: Right. So, absolutely. Yeah. I mean. 

[00:20:41] Axel Meierhoefer: The only reason they could be in that bucket is for the tequila and the flame throw. Right? 

[00:20:46] Alexandra Merz: There you go. There you go. And submerge. Yeah, let's do that. Yeah. Maybe that 

[00:20:50] Axel Meierhoefer: little, what is it called, cyber court or something? Exactly. Okay, cool. Now, so you touched already and I'm really glad that that we already [00:21:00] getting into that direction.

[00:21:02] Axel Meierhoefer: One of the questions I kind of thought about asking you is. What would you call Tesla? And not, not from a categorization perspective, but what kind of a company is it? If you had to give it some kind of label? 

[00:21:17] Alexandra Merz: It's a funny question because we actually discussed that recently with my husband. I, and, and I'll come from an angle that probably not what he would've thought of.

[00:21:25] Alexandra Merz: I think it's a planetary company in the way they are set up, in the way they are, uh, working. Each site they're having, be it in Shanghai, be it in Berlin, be it in in Austin Fremont, um, in a way to cover always one continent, right? So they are on this planet. Very specifically set up and building products and services for each of those regions.

[00:21:55] Alexandra Merz: So I wouldn't call it global. I would really call it Planet, because then I have [00:22:00] SpaceX, which is obviously extra planetary. So that's my way of, of describing it. Now obviously that doesn't fit in any traditional description of any company, but I, I just feel it. What Elon has been doing with all his companies.

[00:22:16] Alexandra Merz: We may get into the, the others he's setting up, but he's really solving global issues and trying to optimize that. We've had so many supply chain issues the last 10 years, notably COVID, but obviously now again with the terrorists first terrorist from President Trump. Now secondary face with President Trump and Tesla is the only company.

[00:22:40] Alexandra Merz: Even better than the Chinese set up to actually face these moments, right? They were the first ones to be able to continue building cars during COVID. They're the best set up for the tariff threats. I'm not saying they're perfectly set up, nobody is, but they're much better set up than [00:23:00] anybody else. So the way this has been thought through, just from the supply side, I'm not even talking about.

[00:23:06] Alexandra Merz: The excellence of products and obviously AI and whatever else is coming just from the setup of supply is, is uncomparable. When, when, when the war broke up in Ukraine, most car makers had issues because some part of their 40,000 parts came from Ukraine. Right? And nobody even realized that I was the source of most power of, of so many parts.

[00:23:30] Alexandra Merz: Not Tesla. Right. And, and that is that, that speaks to the vertical integration and how everything from the beginning to the end has been thought out. There are cars driving around. I actually met this weekend, uh, a Model S driver. The Model S from 2017 and he's fully on FSD. I mean, it is crazy. It's absolutely crazy.

[00:23:51] Alexandra Merz: An 8-year-old car. Try that with any other 8-year-old car. They may have the same cup holder. Than current cup holders, but certainly not the [00:24:00] tech. 

[00:24:00] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah, I just saw on, on x, um, I think it was yesterday from, from a German guy who said I made it to 700,000 kilometers. My car is 10 years old. Guess what? No need to go to the shop.

[00:24:16] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah. Tonight I'm gonna get another over the air update. Right. Like, so that, that's just, um, and for the, I mean, one thing, and I know that you and, um, Kevin asked Elon in, in one of, I think it was the shareholder meeting about Advertis advertising. One of the things I honestly have to say, and I don't even want to pretend to know how to do it well.

[00:24:37] Axel Meierhoefer: I think the dyna is, for example, a really good idea to do it, but in some way, shape or form, getting more people more informed. And I mean, we are doing what we're doing today as part of that, but I think that is just, you know, 99% of the, of the world community, the planetary community, let's call it. Um, it's not really aware anything more than maybe the brand name and maybe some political [00:25:00] stuff, uh, but not really what's under underneath.

[00:25:02] Axel Meierhoefer: That's true. One thing that I want That is true. 

[00:25:05] Alexandra Merz: I have, I have two, so excuse me to interrupt you. I have actually two ways of thinking about it. The first one is obviously Elon would hate to support traditional media with advertising because that's where the money goes, right? That's the, the first point.

[00:25:17] Alexandra Merz: Um, the second is that Tesla's business model selling cars to individuals. Is gonna be less and less important, and I think they will eventually stop it. I think the cars will be a means of transportation, but not of ownership. The the the third point, which is actually an argument for advertising is the problem by not advertising is.

[00:25:43] Alexandra Merz: You leave the door open to all your competitors in the different fields and to the press always being very hostile just because you don't support them. Right? And so that third point always hits Tesla and its shareholders more than anybody else, just because [00:26:00] the press feels. We don't owe Tesla, Elon anything.

[00:26:03] Alexandra Merz: Here we go. And obviously the clicks pay any Tesla and Elon Click pays a lot. 

[00:26:08] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah, absolutely. One thing from my perspective. I've been wondering for a long time when people listen to us, when people see you with Herbert or, or with anybody else on, on YouTube shows or whatever the circumstances. I think it's pretty clear that there is a, at least in the retail community, retail shareholder community, a very, very strong belief in the company, in in the vision of the company.

[00:26:37] Axel Meierhoefer: This extends, in my opinion, to these, what do we have, like almost 120,000 employees in the company, right? Like if you need any of the things when somebody leaves, yes. The media always makes it like a, a huge catastrophe because somebody says, I've worked like a horse for 10 years, I need a break or something like that.

[00:26:55] Axel Meierhoefer: That's how I interpret it. But what I'm getting, uh, ed, is I've been wondering, [00:27:00] and it, I don't think it needs to be Elon or it needs to be anybody like us, but if it wouldn't be possible. If we can get 120,000 people to be fascinated enough by the vision to really work much more than the normal German, like 32 hours a week kind of thing.

[00:27:16] Axel Meierhoefer: Right? Um, if that's possible. I'm wondering what would be a way to get that out more into the masses, right? Like a little bit like, uh, Harry Potter or something like that. Right? You, you trigger the fascination for something that people can get behind. Um, the other thing that's just me thinking a little bit out loud, one thing I wanted to ask you is I am more and more as I'm observing and tracking and reading and looking and watching, I'm more and more wondering this visionary status that I think everybody with half a brain would assign to Elon at this point has this forward looking component.

[00:27:57] Axel Meierhoefer: And I sometimes, like I give you an example of [00:28:00] what I mean when I'm wondering. I remember over and over and over, Elon was talking about here is a way to print money. You just have to do a lithium refiner. Please buy the stuff from Indonesia, bring it over here, refine it, clean it. You print money over and over and over.

[00:28:16] Axel Meierhoefer: And ultimately, since nobody did it, he said, okay, let's go it. We do it ourselves. 

[00:28:21] Alexandra Merz: Let's, yeah. 

[00:28:22] Axel Meierhoefer: Now my question, Alexandra, is. Did he anticipate that? Probably nobody would do it and he just wanted to be able to say, I told you so, and now we're doing it, and now you're all gonna be, I should have afterwards. Or was it really, Hey, I don't really want to get into this.

[00:28:38] Axel Meierhoefer: I give everybody a heads up if you want to. Yeah. You know, you should. How do you see that? Is he, did he or is he every Probably 

[00:28:46] Alexandra Merz: both. Probably both. I, I do believe, you know, I don't believe that, especially with shareholders, Elon plays. Four Gees. I don't believe that. I think he's always very upfront with us.

[00:28:56] Alexandra Merz: And if you listen to the earnings call, I mean, as soon [00:29:00] as I have half day off, I go to some old earnings call and just re-listen to it because there's always so many nuggets in it that you didn't hear the first time and even the second time around. And then. You know, it all becomes much clearer. Right?

[00:29:11] Alexandra Merz: And uh, and, and uh, and, and I always have this feeling that he's very sincere in what he says, but it's also true that they just couldn't have waited. Right? Lithium is something that we need. Now, lithium refinery and all rare Earth Refinery are actually not rare. They're not rare, but the extraction is a really dirty business.

[00:29:30] Alexandra Merz: It is disgusting. It is a really disgusting business. And so. Lots of people don't wanna do it often. It takes a long, long time to get permits because wherever you do it, nobody really wants the, the leftovers of, of all this. And, um, and so the, the, you know, I think he was very sincere in saying, no, but you know, we don't wanna do it.

[00:29:51] Alexandra Merz: Please do it. We pay, we pay any price for it. You can have contracts as long as you want. Please do it. And then when nobody showed up. What, what choice do you have? And so he's doing it, [00:30:00] he's doing it in a corner of Texas, uh, where he probably got the permits quicker than, you know, because obviously he has direct link now to the, to the governor of Texas.

[00:30:09] Alexandra Merz: And, um, and as a Tesla shareholder, I'm very happy we have. Oh yeah, 

[00:30:14] Axel Meierhoefer: absolutely. It's just, there's no doubt, you know, like I think if somebody is really a fan or a follower. Those kind of things. I kind of moving me a little bit like how much is really like forward looking, visionary thinking and how much is okay.

[00:30:29] Axel Meierhoefer: I honestly wouldn't really want to do it, but it's a need that we have for vertically integration. Now, I also didn't finish my part of, you know, you called it a planetary company. I am really a fan and more and more every day a fan of Tony Siba, and I know Cerner is a big fan too, and talks about it all the time.

[00:30:46] Axel Meierhoefer: I'm wondering if the label would be the company for the age of abundance. 

[00:30:52] Alexandra Merz: True, true. It is. And, and actually Elon speaks about what superabundance we're gonna create. And I think lots [00:31:00] of the stuff that's happening politically at the moment, um, prepare us for that. I think the tariff policy of President Trump ide, it's very confusing and there are days I'm very tired of it.

[00:31:12] Alexandra Merz: I think tired is the right word. It just tires me. Um. But I do see where America can in very few years, like hardly ever before, make an enormous jump in productivity. Um, I do believe, and I think the politicians have understood that, that bots will replace lots of. Positions here in the United States, we can maybe talk about, you know, what that means.

[00:31:39] Alexandra Merz: What does it mean for unemployment? What does it mean for social unrest? What does it mean for our comfort level? But the end result will be a much higher abundance. America will not have to import goods from China anymore because we can produce them currently, the average production. [00:32:00] Of any goods here in the United States takes about $70 an hour no matter what it is, be it food or be it whatever the, the cost that goes into producing something that at a cost for an hour is $70.

[00:32:13] Alexandra Merz: With bots, you'll bring that down to $1. In China, the average. Price of production for any good is $2 with a bot, they will bring it down to $1. So the, the and and China needs bots just because of their silly one child policy. There's a whole generational shift and they need more workers and they need bots.

[00:32:33] Alexandra Merz: Us. It's less a question about needing bots. It's much more that we have a gap of 69 bucks between what we're currently paying to produce, to what will it cost. That will allow us to stop importing and produce here. And so when you have that vision, when you understand the abundance that comes from it, the 69 times multiply multiplier because that's the money that will be there to be distributed, to fund [00:33:00] healthcare, to fund whatever else, and the new society, uh, society, and a new societal.

[00:33:05] Alexandra Merz: Meaning has to be built up because lots of the last 3, 4, 5, probably even 10 generations were built on educating your kids to work hard. Suddenly, it will be a different education that you have to give your children of. It is not working hard. It's maybe working smart, but it's also thinking about what in this age of abundance will be needed and how can you procure that.

[00:33:30] Alexandra Merz: So the, the whole thing is shifting and it may shift as quickly as five to 10 years, there will be resistance. I'm not saying everybody will understand this quickly, and lots of people just want everything to stay the same. Um, but Tony Seber sees where, sees it very well, and, and I think, uh, Elon sees it very well, and that's why he invested so heavily in Xai.

[00:33:50] Alexandra Merz: Clearly because yeah, absolute between the bots of Tesla and, and the AI and, and soon a GI, that's where we're going. 

[00:33:57] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah. And uh, I mean, just as a little, [00:34:00] and, and I love this conversation that we are kind of like two people that are really looking into this in quite a, a bit of depth. I think we can help at least my audience to, to learn a little bit more about it.

[00:34:11] Axel Meierhoefer: To me, this XAI is also an example. For the reasons Elon gave and in a sense, to me at least a little bit, an example, similar to the lithium uh, refinery. Correct. In, in the sense of. Founding it, I totally buy this argument that people didn't want to be a member in 120,000 people company. They wanted to have, uh, equity, equity and stuff like that.

[00:34:35] Axel Meierhoefer: They wanted to have like, uh, freedom. Uh, they wanted to be very focused, all that. And that 

[00:34:40] Alexandra Merz: already worked out, by the way. Right. Because if you see the valuation now, the, the, that they were completely right to do that. 

[00:34:45] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah. I, I agree with that. But I could also see, and, and this is another one mother version of this question.

[00:34:54] Axel Meierhoefer: I wonder if at some point Elon said, okay, I think we need somewhere between [00:35:00] probably 200,000 and 700,000, uh, Nvidia, you know, H 100 equivalents or dojo equivalents who can do this for us and just heard crickets or the stupid argument that you cannot hook more than 10,000 or 20,000 together. And you know, at some weekend when he didn't play, uh, video games, he thought, exactly.

[00:35:22] Axel Meierhoefer: Is that really true? Is that really, let me go to first, let's 

[00:35:24] Alexandra Merz: do it. 

[00:35:25] Axel Meierhoefer: You know, let's think about it and come to the conclusion. It's only true because you're using the silly kind of cabling that you're doing. If we change the cabling and the way that data is actually flowing, I mean, the fact that they did it in like, what was it, 9 19 99?

[00:35:41] Axel Meierhoefer: Unheard 

[00:35:41] Alexandra Merz: of. Unheard of 

[00:35:43] Axel Meierhoefer: in half a year or less, or something like that. But the point is more, it's a similar thing, right? Like I know what it is, I know how it works. We can clean it up. So it's not such a nasty process. And if nobody wants to do it, we do it. If everybody says you cannot have a data center with now what looks like [00:36:00] ultimately a million.

[00:36:01] Axel Meierhoefer: Uh, Nvidia, GPUs all connected, all working simultaneously supporting both full self driving. But I think to a large extent, it will also, and this is why you call it, uh, planetary, right? I'm calling it more like the age of abundance company. It all flows together. The Optimus, it does. Optim 

[00:36:20] Alexandra Merz: needs. 

[00:36:21] Axel Meierhoefer: Optimus needs basically the data center and the modeling support just as much as full safe driving needs it.

[00:36:27] Axel Meierhoefer: So, you know, the demand is, is almost infinite. In that sense, before we talk a little bit more like vision visioning into the age of abundance, how concerned are you? Or maybe turn it around and say, should Tesla do something about it? With these most recent decisions on energy generation, 

[00:36:47] Alexandra Merz: I'm not concerned because in the end they always, you know, come to their senses and it's actually already happening a bit.

[00:36:55] Alexandra Merz: Um, the first point is that. For decades, [00:37:00] nobody in America talked about nuclear. Right now, nuclear is back on the table and nuclear is, in my view, clean nuclear, right, is in my view, the solution we should strive to. And nuclear is gonna be a much quicker solution than we all anticipate once the money is behind it.

[00:37:18] Alexandra Merz: So. Do I like what, what President Trump did on the sustainable energy side? No, I don't. Of course I do not. Um, but. What? The main reason I don't like it is because he still approved the lobbying, the lobbied suspensions to gas and oil, right? I just find this, you know, an old world thinking. I do believe that.

[00:37:47] Alexandra Merz: These companies don't need taxpayer money to survive and we should just stop all that. But the lobbying industry in that part is just so powerful and there's so many Congress [00:38:00] people who got financed from that part that it, it. It bothers me. Politics bother me a lot because it's such an old world style still and, uh, and, and needs disruption and the way Congress is set up and here he goes with his America party, Elon, right?

[00:38:19] Alexandra Merz: Um, but I do believe that they will come to their senses very quickly. And the, again, the nuclear pile part of it gives me the hope that they actually understand what's happening. 

[00:38:31] Axel Meierhoefer: Okay, cool. And then I have another question in, in a similar direction. Um, what do you think is the likelihood that the Chinese figure out either using currently available technology and just, you know, refining it just like we are refining it here with, with like intel and so forth to, I don't know if.

[00:38:53] Axel Meierhoefer: If there's anything, be below three or one nanometer chips or just find another solution that has [00:39:00] similar or potentially even better results, or do you think that they will always stay behind in, in that, in that core, 

[00:39:07] Alexandra Merz: no, I do believe that. I actually do believe they're making enormous progress. Um, I, I don't hate on the Chinese at all.

[00:39:12] Alexandra Merz: I just. Understand, and I think also all of us do the harm it did to us manufacturing, it actually did to European as well. I I know very well the textile industry. You know, my brands, my, my age, like the Escada and Gary labels of Germany and whatever. Everybody's bankrupt. I only had like prosecutions you go.

[00:39:34] Alexandra Merz: But uh, but I mean all those beautiful German brands that were known for their. Textiles. Their cuts, their, but they were reasonably priced for the quality they had. And they were expensive, but it was not, it was not Parisian shik where you are overpaid it. They all are out of business. And if you trace where it ca came from, it is obviously cheap manufacturing in Asia and mainly in China.

[00:39:59] Alexandra Merz: So [00:40:00] the, the, you know. It's a shame what we did to our own industries and we're actually doing in Europe at the moment to the car industry. What, what is happening with BYD to European car industry? So, but, but that doesn't mean I hate the Chinese. They're just ultra smart. They are ultra smart and obviously have cheaper labor and, and, and tougher uh, conditions, work conditions in China than our oversensitive Europeans and Americans and Canadians.

[00:40:28] Alexandra Merz: Right. Um, we can talk about how sensitive we, we allow. Well, 

[00:40:31] Axel Meierhoefer: absolute Yeah. I'm really with you there, Alexandra. The other point is this might may make you chuckle a little bit. My dad was actually asked to participate in helping Volkswagen to literally. Break down the whole Volkswagen Santana manufacturing line and rebuild it in in China.

[00:40:53] Axel Meierhoefer: Because the Santana was one of those models that happens every once in a while where you build something and nobody wants to [00:41:00] buy it. And they were so convinced that this was the right car and it wasn't. So the question was, okay, where do we do it? This is actually historically the reason why Volkswagen had such a super high standing in, in the eyes of the Chinese, because these Santana were basically the Western made to Western standards, quality, and otherwise.

[00:41:19] Axel Meierhoefer: And they were only driven around by the people from the Communist party in China be, you know, before they ever had, you know, um, oping and, and the whole, you know, industrial revolution. So when you say, well, we help them, we help them basically to be able to, and this is kind of like a funny little, you know, for, for Tesla insiders, they knew with without, with that manufacturing line, how to do SP bars.

[00:41:47] Axel Meierhoefer: Mm. From the get go. Why Tesla had to learn it over the years to No 

[00:41:52] Alexandra Merz: gaps. No gaps, 

[00:41:53] Axel Meierhoefer: right? Yeah. So, but the point, that's what I'm saying, right? Like somebody said, I have something here that I wanna find someone [00:42:00] who can do something with it. Right? And it, I believe still to this day, the fact that they are manufacturing is relatively off the bed, high quality is because.

[00:42:09] Axel Meierhoefer: Some companies said, we want to take advantage of these $2 labor rates. Yes. Right. And basically make more profit. And that's why I also find it disingenuous to say, well, we did this to our own industry and now it's the Chinese fault. Right. They, they stole our industry. Right, right. 

[00:42:26] Alexandra Merz: You, you milked the cow for 20 years and now you don't like the cow anymore.

[00:42:30] Axel Meierhoefer: Not only that, then you also export your inflation to the cow. 

[00:42:34] Alexandra Merz: Exactly, exactly. And, and I'm like, uh, somebody working and I mean, we probably shouldn't talk about European car market, but this European car market is in for a couple of surprises. I mean, when the disruption hits from both side, both cheaper and very good.

[00:42:48] Alexandra Merz: Chinese cars coming in and much better technology from Tesla. Um, they can pretend and they are continuing to pretend. I mean, I was, I was talking to a German speaker the other week and he said to me, oh, they're still [00:43:00] selling in Germany, that Volkswagen is at level four. Autonomy. Oh, sure is absolutely right.

[00:43:07] Alexandra Merz: Driving there. There we are. Why not level five while we're at it? Right. And and they still believe that in the German press and on the German ground, and you're just like, excuse me. Okay. 

[00:43:17] Axel Meierhoefer: Well, but I, I mean, the other thing is we, we both know, um, and I know that I don't want to get into this European stuff too much either, but there is more so in my opinion, in my observation, the almost.

[00:43:32] Axel Meierhoefer: To a level of propaganda influencing of the public with more, oh, 

[00:43:36] Alexandra Merz: you're so right. You're so right. You're more 

[00:43:37] Axel Meierhoefer: successful than in the United States. Yes, we have this, you know, your red or your blue, and we have kind of like this kind of camp tribalism going on. But when, when I speak, and I mean, even though I don't live in Germany for the last 30 years, but I obviously still have family and friends and stuff like that, and when I talk to them.

[00:43:56] Axel Meierhoefer: There is a certain, I would call it, in [00:44:00] using a little of the French naivete, um, to basically say, okay, should we be concerned that BYD and CATL are building huge factories in Hungary with the blessing of Victor Orban, 

[00:44:11] Alexandra Merz: Hungary, and Turkey? Yes. Yes. And the answer is, and at the end of the year, in less than six months, in less than six months, there will be European Union built by Yds flooding the market at prices that.

[00:44:25] Alexandra Merz: With technology that nobody has ever seen and at prices that nobody has ever seen. No. You shouldn't be concerned. You still have five months to Oh, right. 

[00:44:32] Axel Meierhoefer: Like just believe the mainstream media and, and pay your, be engaged at money and Exactly. That's exactly, 

[00:44:39] Alexandra Merz: no, I couldn't do it either. I, I go home, I mean, I still call it home, uh, once a year, two, three weeks, and then on my flight back, it's a long flight.

[00:44:48] Alexandra Merz: I have a lot of time to think about it. I'm, I'm like, grateful, grateful, grateful. 

[00:44:54] Axel Meierhoefer: Well, we do, basically, we have a place in Spain and a place in San Diego and we invite the family to us. [00:45:00] So anyway, um, I want to go back to this age of abundance because I really think that that is a great, um, topic to explore a little bit looking forward when, when you look at, from your perspective where AI is going, where the inference computing at Tesla is going, and where Optimus is going.

[00:45:24] Axel Meierhoefer: For one, I have kind of two questions. One would be how do you see that evolution, um, as far as, you know, different generation versions from Optimus as well as the, the AI part, but also would you do me the favor to speculate a little bit how you see living in the age of abundance is gonna look like? 

[00:45:45] Alexandra Merz: Yeah, I can do that.

[00:45:46] Alexandra Merz: Um, and it's pure speculation because I have no clue either. Um, so Optimus, I think the first versions of Optimus that we will really meet, not just presentations, are going to be factory workers, factory workers in Tesla on [00:46:00] factories or SpaceX or whatever, but in, in the Elon Universe, think that's gonna come for the end of this year.

[00:46:06] Alexandra Merz: There will be optimist versions. The next version, let's call it version two, we'll actually be at version six or seven by then. But just for this discussion, let's just. Stay stake it, stack it up like that. So the next version will be the one where they sell these to other manufacturers for other factories, right?

[00:46:23] Alexandra Merz: So the, the same usage case, but now expanding the T only. And then the third part will be for private use. Private use or small company use. Um, and I do believe, uh, Optimus and other humanoid um, robots, but I do believe here again, Tesla will be. By far dominating the market that it won't be the only ones, but it'll be by far dominating the, the market because.

[00:46:52] Alexandra Merz: Their solution is like always a general solution. It's a solution of vision to action. Anything [00:47:00] you see today, Boston Dynamics, I'm always joking or whatever is steered with a joystick, right? I mean maybe pre-programmed or whatever, but it comes to the same principle that it is steered only Tesla has both for the cars and for the bots.

[00:47:16] Alexandra Merz: Solved vision to action. Everybody else is still measuring, is still having whatever else tools you can talk about, LIDAR and whatever else. The only ones that have enough compute and have enough intelligence and have enough worked hard on it is Tesla and has solved through the neural nets end to end.

[00:47:37] Alexandra Merz: You see it? Uh. Computer in one way or the other has digested sufficient information to now by itself come up with the right reaction. Right. That is what's happening every day in my car, in your car, in any other FSD driven car. Exactly. Yeah. And very soon will happen also with the bot. So initially they will, so [00:48:00] why are they going with the factories and then outside of factory in other factories?

[00:48:05] Alexandra Merz: And then the, the general use case, because in the factory I. The videos that you're gonna feed the computer behind it, I try to always put it in easy. Words are always more or less the same types of work. So the quantity of video you have to feed in is relatively. Little right. When you expand to competitors, well, it's still the same type of setup.

[00:48:30] Alexandra Merz: They may have factories that are a little bit set up differently, but the number of videos you need to train are not enormous. When you go to general public, it gets enormous. So I was actually making a joke, and I do it regularly on my X feed. About, I want my optimist to iron. I'm good Old German ironing.

[00:48:48] Alexandra Merz: Oh, I have a whole list. 

[00:48:49] Axel Meierhoefer: Not just iron. I have a list. I know, but 

[00:48:50] Alexandra Merz: mine is ironing. Mine is ironing. So, and I'm very, very, very particular about ironing the way I want my shirts and my dresses. Iron is. So I'm, [00:49:00] every couple of weeks I'm going, Hey, Tesla ai, where can I upload my ironing? Because I want that you will all be able to, to iron like Alexandra did.

[00:49:07] Alexandra Merz: Right? I may be dead one day. My, my legacy is gonna be that your bot is gonna iron your short. Like I would've done it. Yeah. And uh, and, and when people think this through, and please. To your audience, think this through everything that you're doing. It may be from gardening. If you enjoy it, by heaven means continue enjoying it.

[00:49:28] Alexandra Merz: But if you don't enjoy it, or finally your back is hurting, or finally you enjoyed it a bit, but after half an hour, you wanna give up. Everything that comes in that category will be done or doable by bots. And so this goes from elderly care. This goes to, you know, hospitals. This goes to stuff that nobody wants to do, fixing solar panels on the roof, anything.

[00:49:51] Alexandra Merz: And that's why the compute is so important because for all this situation, you have to feed the initial videos of [00:50:00] excellent work so that the computer can. Learn vision, action. How to now feed this all to the, to, to the optimist. And the optimist will have the same interface that we currently have in the cars 'cause, but people don't understand is it's Tesla building this, it is not some chip that is coming from some, uh, you know, Nvidia or whatever else IMD No, this is a Tesla chip and it's Tesla making this happen.

[00:50:29] Axel Meierhoefer: Absolutely. I mean, one thing, we talked earlier a little bit about the uniqueness. This planetary company being so highly vertically integrated, I oftentimes feel that people, and Tony Siber is one of the people who also, um, points this out with his scur and stuff like that, that people have, um, an even harder time to understand the vertical integration when you start throwing in software.

[00:50:55] Axel Meierhoefer: In my opinion, when I look at all the components, Optimus is basically ultra [00:51:00] vertically integrated by Tesla because all the things they make, not just make the hardware of the bot, but they also have the data centers. They make the chips, they make the software. They basically run it all over the world.

[00:51:12] Axel Meierhoefer: One thing that I am curious about, because I already know I need at least two, one for me and one for Heidi, and maybe another one because you know, might have work enough for three. Yeah. But. One thing that I'm, uh, wanted to ask you what I'm curious around this transition that Tony speaks about from the age of extraction that we live in right now, and that's kind of coming to an end, into this age of abundance.

[00:51:40] Axel Meierhoefer: I have this vision that, let's say Elon is right and in, in 20 28, 20 29, there are 10 million optimists or optimize, whatever the right way is made a year. I'm thinking, okay, let's say one of them has been given to Alexandra and she teaches that [00:52:00] one optimist how to do the ironing of the shirts, and because it has probably at that time, a six G connection to the internet, those 10 million that were made that year plus the other, whatever, 10 million that were made the five years beforehand, they will now all know.

[00:52:17] Axel Meierhoefer: How that ironing shirt That's right. And 

[00:52:19] Alexandra Merz: if you, and if you pay for the, I don't know, 3 99 to download it on yours, then yours can do it as well. 

[00:52:26] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah. That's the domestic package or something like that. Exactly. And that's, that's the 

[00:52:30] Alexandra Merz: apps. 

[00:52:31] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah. My, my, the question that I'm building towards is you use this beautiful example of ironing the shirts, but when you think, uh, anybody in the audience thinks about not just because you do it so well and you have these super high standards, but just in general.

[00:52:47] Axel Meierhoefer: I like the example of making dishes, right? Yeah. And, and some Optimus somewhere is like helping in a three star, four star Michelin restaurant on how to do stuff. Now all [00:53:00] the, at whatever time you look, 20 million, 50 million, a hundred million, 2 billion. Optimize. All know how to do this now. 

[00:53:07] Alexandra Merz: Well, I not only do dishes, how to cook, how to cook, my husband is a perfect cook and I tell him, we ha you have to now put the GoPro on.

[00:53:15] Alexandra Merz: We have to have all this because I want you to film from the beginning to the end, all the recipes, because we're gonna feed them to optimists and then they, there will be a cookbook. And if you want the Michelle. Boiled eggs or, or scrambled eggs or whatever it does. Well, you just click on the button and then your optimal can do it as well.

[00:53:34] Axel Meierhoefer: Right, and I see that part, and you explained that beautifully with uploading the video or feeding it the video. What I, my question goes more in the direction. If you imagine a larger, like we in this domestic age of abundance, use usability of humanized robots may be predominantly optimist. Where they can basically learn from observation.

[00:53:56] Axel Meierhoefer: Yeah. What I'm a little bit curious about and want to ask you, your [00:54:00] opinion is, to me, this looks in my mind like a tidal wave that nobody anticipates. 

[00:54:06] Alexandra Merz: I, I agree. Curve 

[00:54:08] Axel Meierhoefer: that Tony has. Yeah. Like it's not just incrementally gonna get better if you have millions and millions of these things out there observing stuff and telling everybody else how to do it.

[00:54:18] Alexandra Merz: Yeah, and they will share. They will, each of them will learn. Some of the stuff will be learned just in your private setting. Some of them is shareable and will improve all of us, but I think what is. The most astonishing is that it's not only coming from the bots, it's also obviously coming from the large language models.

[00:54:36] Alexandra Merz: I, I have a theory and if, if this gets too crazy, interrupt me because I could go on for it for ages, but I have a theory that these large language models within the next five years. Really disrupt the way work is organized. At the moment, we're still in a very old style pattern between workers, middle management and upper management.

[00:54:57] Alexandra Merz: And I, I believe this crust of [00:55:00] middle management is gonna explode and disappear. It's, it's actually already useless now, but since they have the communication factor from up to down and if. They're always very good at setting up meetings to discuss meetings, to follow up on meetings, and, you know, keeping themselves busy and, and indispensable.

[00:55:18] Alexandra Merz: Um, it needs, uh, it needs a disruption like AI to explode that system. So, in my view, you have this whole middle management. I call it the crust, who, that actually, you know, cements in a very negative way the way we work. Because instead of just getting the work done, we have to fight these people. These, I mean, in, in France, you, you know, I've spent most of my life in adult life in France.

[00:55:45] Alexandra Merz: Uh, it's all these function there and all these supervisors that just yeah, you know, ruin your day and, and, and you, I think this is all gonna go because. Anybody and everybody has now GR or if you wanna use something else, [00:56:00] jet GPT or whatever, to actually get very quickly to the right solution. And you can work in a much more productive way.

[00:56:08] Alexandra Merz: And upper management will very quickly understand that they don't need these barriers and these people that slow down and, and micromanage, uh, anymore. And so that is gonna actually liberate. In an early stage of this age of abundance, that's gonna liberate people in their work. Lots of people actually hate their work because of their middle management above them.

[00:56:31] Alexandra Merz: Right? And, uh, and, and I think that's gonna help. And I also am, am strongly convinced that there are certain professions that will just continue existing. The manufacturing job will not look the same anymore, but there will still be manufacturing jobs. The lady doing my nails will still do my nails. The, the chiropractic is still gonna do chiropractic and so there are quite a lot of jobs.

[00:56:55] Alexandra Merz: They may slightly change or they may have help from AI or bots, [00:57:00] but they will still be existing the way they are. And then there is a huge part of our population that will just be. Consumers in a, in a healthy way in this age of abundance, and they will be. Concentrating on raising their families, we will probably reevaluate completely how we wanna be parents, what we want to teach our children.

[00:57:28] Alexandra Merz: Um, I think the arts are gonna have a whole renaissance of, you know, how important they are sharing things, you know, group building, community building will become much more important. So I believe us as a society, if we get this right, we'll make actually much more progress towards a more pleasant. Life with higher abundance, just because, like I explained earlier, there's just gonna be such a win in, in, in cost of services and [00:58:00] goods that are provided, um, that it's, that it will become actually, you know, we will be rich.

[00:58:06] Alexandra Merz: A good thing to do at the moment, what I always try to point out is be rich in assets because assets will appreciate in this, in this scenario, much more than, uh, than money does. 

[00:58:17] Axel Meierhoefer: I think that too, even though I'm not fully clear that I can explain it, if I really think the ability of humanized robots and AI to its full extent, I, I'm not quite sure.

[00:58:28] Axel Meierhoefer: But one vision that I'm also kind of attaching to this is, and, and, you know, as an old fan of, um, star, star Trek and Starship Enterprise and that kind of stuff. I think this could, if we not keep hammering that we have enemies that we need to keep at bay and that need, need to be protectionist against and stuff, just like you said, I have no problem.

[00:58:52] Axel Meierhoefer: I would actually like to go to China and explore it and get to know the people and the amazing stuff they do there. Um, so if we can avoid [00:59:00] that, I think there's an opportunity there to get to like, uh, the United Humans of Earth. Right. Uh, in, instead of everybody having their own little system and, and doing everything individually, um, maybe coming a little bit, um, towards the end.

[00:59:18] Axel Meierhoefer: I'm kind of curious, the way you described it, do you think the doing the nails and doing the chiropractic is out of fear or not yet capability of the Optimus? 

[00:59:34] Alexandra Merz: That's actually a good question because, um, I, I, I mean, I've seen our machines doing nails. I, I'm the machines. There's no way I, I just love my nails too much and I want them done in a certain way.

[00:59:46] Alexandra Merz: I'm not gonna give my hands into a machine and pull them out and see what's happening. But will optimists be precise enough to do nails? I mean, it should, right? If, if my theory is correct that they

podcast season: AI in the age of abundance