The IDEAL Investor Show: The Path to Early Retirement

Shift Your Entire Money Game | Homeless to Real Estate Investor in 6 Years with Roger Wesley

Axel Meierhoefer

In this episode, Roger Wesley breaks down what most investors miss—and what smart investors do differently. He unpacks his biggest lesson moving into real estate + how conviction, clarity, and communication can transform your career and help raise capital in unexpected ways.

Married with 4 kids and counting, Roger is a committed husband and loving father. He has conquered poverty, homelessness, and failure to become a man of inexhaustible persistence and patience. He owns multiple businesses, is a Real Estate Investor, and He is most grateful for his Salvation through his Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Ask him about it at www.rogerwesley.com

***

Episode highlights:

[00:00-06:11] Skepticism to conviction in REI

[06:12-08:13] Impact of high-level communication

[08:14-11:03] The Secret to scaling your business

[11:04-18:14] Non-traditional way to fund a business

[18:15-27:07] Polish your business in 10 minutes

[27:08-27:59] Connect with Roger

[28:00-32:23] Expert Q&A


Any questions?

***

Grab my 10k/month passive income strategy and weekly newsletters at https://tinyurl.com/iwg-strategy

BOOK IS OUT! Grab Your Copy and learn how to get your feet wet in real estate investing


Intro [00:00:00] So, uh, what I have found is that when you know your business and when you have conviction around your business, when you communicate it, you're going to draw the right people to you. You know exactly what it's that you're looking for. Now, it's a matter of going out there and communicating that repeatedly.

Axel: Welcome to the Ideal Investor Show. This is the podcast where we help you challenge your mindset and discover where you are. Let's go. Hello and welcome everybody to another episode of The Ideal Investor Show today, again, with a great guest. Like everybody knows, we have great guests once a week, and then we have our episodes outside and around that.

So our guest, Roger Wesley, welcome to the show. 

Roger: Thanks for having me, Axel. It's an absolute pleasure. 

Axel: Yeah, it's great. And I mean, you are one of the few people that I had a chance to meet and have a little bit of a conversation before we actually even do today's recording. We discovered that Roger and I have a common connection, uh, through Dustin Hener, who I say is like, you're more friends with him than I am, [00:01:00] but at least we know each other and what we do, so.

Roger, tell the audience a little bit, who is Roger? Where is he coming from? What is he doing? How did he get to where he is today? 

Roger: Yeah, again, pleasure being on the show. Thanks very much for having me. It's an absolute honor. And our friend Dustin Heiner. What a guy. Honestly, Dustin has really tried given me an opportunity to get into this space where I didn't know that there's an opportunity.

And you know, my background is, I've been in. Sales and marketing and leadership training for a number of years. And I actually came across Dustin Heiner at a gym about three or four years ago and we were working out, and I would always see him in there and it'd be nine 30 in the morning on Tuesday or Wednesday morning.

And I'm like, what in the world are you doing, man? He is like, well, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm financially independent. And you know, that really got the ball rolling in my mind. And as we started to develop a relationship at the gym and as I continued to. I grow and expand [00:02:00] my personal business. Um, I, I became more and more intrigued by what he was doing and, uh, actually developed a closer relationship and he actually helped me to start investing into real estate.

And currently I'm a real estate investor. Uh, I'm also the CEO of Inspire to Excel, and I have a couple other business interests all. Really stemming around helping and adding value to people because I truly believe that your greatest experiences in life are tied to a relationship. If you think back to the best thing that happened in your life, it probably happened, um, with someone, you think back to the worst thing that happened in your life, it probably was a result of something that happened with someone.

So all my business interests are around helping other people, and obviously investing in real estate is one of my passions. 

Axel: Right. That's very cool. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, one could think, okay, so financially independent guys and salespeople hang out in the gym at nine 30, right? They 

Roger: do. [00:03:00] See, and it was the concept he was trying to explain to me.

He said, Hey, listen, I show up at nine 15 because I don't want to be bogged down by the people that are in here trying to hit it for 30 to 45 minutes from six to 8:00 AM. He's like, I can get on any piece of equipment that I want. I mean, it really just changed my whole mindset on going to the gym. I'm like, wow.

I, I didn't know the gym was so empty at nine 30. 

Axel: Yeah. Well, that kind of totally makes sense and uh, I know Dustin to be a very efficient guy, but let's not talk so much about him. Tell us a little bit before we get into the investing stuff, uh, and maybe for the audience, people who have taken any time to dig into it a little deeper.

We have this. Second common bond besides the investing because my, my kind of corporate professional role has always been, uh, in things that have to do with leadership development, transition from management to leadership and so forth. So tell us a little bit what expire, inspire to Excel actually does What, what, what's its [00:04:00] purpose?

What are you doing there? Absolutely. 

Roger: So inspired to Excel helps other businesses to multiply their income, and what that really means is, as I was flushing this conversation out, um, a little over a year ago with a gentleman, he described it as a chief strategy officer, and it's someone that sees things from.

30,000 feet that can say, Hey, I would take this prescriptive advice and take this action. And what has happened is we've taken businesses that were producing $5,000 a month in revenue and, uh, helped them to produce $70,000 a month in revenue. Um, we've helped people that, um, on the personal coaching side, that.

Had, uh, no access to reliable or sustainable income and help them to develop businesses and to also acquire vehicles, um, in 30 days or less. So, um, it's really exciting and where it all stemmed from was. The fact that, um, I've always had this ambition, and again, I've always had this passion for helping people.

[00:05:00] And, uh, several years ago I had the opportunity to, uh, participate in a business model that was, uh, highly focused on personal growth and development. And, uh, people in the audience may be familiar with it, but it's called network marketing. And I spent a lot of time personally growing and developing myself because frankly, um.

I was not good at sales or marketing. I did not have the skillset, so I had to spend a lot of time studying great people like John Maxwell, Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, reading their material over and over and over and over and over, and over and over again, and eventually what happened several years later.

People started asking me to come in and speak to their organizations organically without me advertising, without there being a business model in place. And they offered to compensate me for my time. And there was where inspired to Excel was born because as I started walking into that, they shared with me like, Roger, we really believed that this could add lots of value to other people.

You should take [00:06:00] this, uh, mainstream. By the grace of God, we were able to do that and we have had a lot of fun and success along the way. 

Axel: Yeah, that's really, I mean, inspiring, right? Pun intended in this case. Uh, so when you, when you look at that, what would you say you see from this 30,000 foot big picture view?

That you typically do when you see a business that is running, that is surviving but is not really thriving. Is there, are there any few things that, that you could say that you have discovered that look like themes or trends or something that you could point to? 

Roger: Absolutely. And I think in a very simple answer, um, culture eats, vision alive.

Vision is where we're going. Culture is where we're at. And if we're on a pathway to growing and developing our business, you know, how are we communicating that? What are we doing on a daily basis, for [00:07:00] example, in the, uh, material and product handling space? I. Every single time you have to touch a product, it costs money.

So how are we putting ourselves in the best position to only have to touch that product once or twice if possible? And how are we coaching around that? How is our day-to-day activities around that? And really what I have found is that one of the greatest contributors to any business is the, um, increasement of communication.

The increase and the increasing of, of higher communication and more consistent communication. And that's really what gets the ball rolling. Uh, because as I'm sure you've heard, winners are trackers. And if you're not communicating about the metrics that need to be changed, if you're not communicating about how to improve the standard operating procedures on maybe reducing the amount of time that you have to touch this product in terms of getting it, in terms of, you know, getting it ready for production, [00:08:00] then.

It's just going to fall by the wayside. So that would probably be a couple of the most simplest things that we take and help organizations to see and to, uh, become more efficient with. 

Axel: Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now, are you mainly servicing people who have like tangible physical products or are you also supporting organizations that have services to offer?

Roger: That's a great question. So it's actually a, a mixture of both with some of the clients that we've been able to help. So, uh, we've been able to. Help one client, uh, here in the local Phoenix, Arizona area that has a home service business. And, um, this company, uh, does very well in terms of revenue. Um, I believe they're just shy of, uh, six figures a month and, and top line revenue.

And what we've been able to help them to do is to realize greater efficiencies and how to be able to scale their organization through multiple channels. Um, there's another organization that we're working with. That actually is a service-based business. And, uh, they actually [00:09:00] don't have any physical product, but they help people across the United States of America, um, to realize whenever a house goes into foreclosure, it gets, uh, sold at an estate sale.

Well, it's not very common knowledge that people actually are entitled to funds thereafter that sale, and we have helped this organization. To be able to, uh, create, uh, larger market share in the United States of America by some of the strategies that we've helped them with, um, as well as, uh, other organizations and other industries.

It's not limited to products, but it is, it can be simpler, um, when you're looking at, um, some very, some very simple, uh, changes that could be made in a product type of business. 

Axel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, from my own consulting background, I would say in a product type business. The process optimization and efficiency has oftentimes a [00:10:00] substantial, um, effect and impact.

If you're assuming you have two businesses who are equally good in marketing and sales. If you then take the other side and say, okay, well what's then the reason that you don't get that much of an impact when you have a company that has a service is that the service, even if you optimize the service, what's oftentimes missing is that they're actually not as good in marketing and sales as the product companies.

Part of that is in the service industry, in my opinion. That the, you can have the best service, the best training, the best program, and if you can get it out to your target audience. Right. Whereas if a product is really good, a physical, tangible product, even if your marketing isn't great, if enough people like it and tell other people, you can have basically success in selling, even if your processes are inefficient and you're not making the amount of profit right?

But in a service that really doesn't work, [00:11:00] typically, at least it doesn't work that well. Um, that's just my opinion about it. Now, one thing, um, that I think is an interesting and maybe good segue to what our audience is normally hearing or or us talking about has to do with investing with money, with real estate and so forth.

So, uh, to be a little cheeky, I could say, okay, if you take somebody from really $5,000 a month to $50,000 a month. Let's say they want to double their expenditure and live a little bit better life, but that would still leave 40,000 a month to invest, right? So, so, um, at least as a down payment. Uh, but the other thing I know about you and why we, we clicked in the sense of coming on the show is that you have developed a way of raising money in, I would call it non-traditional ways.

So can you basically build the bridge between. People that have obviously more profits have more or easier time to invest, but also then how would you take somebody who [00:12:00] says, okay, now I have 20, 30, 50,000 to make a down payment and I want to raise funds to make the investment. Uh, how do you help on that side?

Roger: That's a great question. And the thing that immediately comes to mind is the way you do anything is the way you do everything right, and your reputation precedes you. So what I have found is that when I first was looking at investing into real estate, I, I didn't have this huge background of investing in real estate.

In fact. To, I feel, I feel, um, bad saying it, but I actually didn't believe in real estate as a matter of fact. And I preached it and I preached the fact that you're gonna pay way more interest than, uh, than the value of the, the property itself, and you should just rent. And I, I did this for years, however, when I made the transition, I went all in and I told people about it.

The people that knew my background [00:13:00] and that saw the, the conviction and the way I communicated, were going to invest into me. Were going to invest into bring capital to the table. 'cause they knew that I didn't do, I didn't produce subpar work in anything. And when you've created that type of reputation, or even let's say that perhaps you haven't created that reputation.

The greatest time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today. So become a person of your word, become a person of character, become a person of value, and then start telling people that you invest in real estate. I am an investor. I invest in real estate. Do you know anyone that's looking to invest in real estate?

I have a couple of projects I'm looking at right now, a couple of deals I'm looking at right now, and once I acquire a little bit more capital, we're gonna get those deals across the finish line. Do you invest in real estate? And this may sound, this may sound. A little, uh, simple, a little bit more simple than, than it really is.

But in actuality, it's everywhere you [00:14:00] are. When you're at the grocery store, when you're at the gas station, when you're um, you know, at your kids' soccer game, when you're out at a a night event, everywhere you go, you know, who are you, what do you do? You know, I live in America and there's this naughty thing that we do in America where we say, uh, you know, what do you do?

Americans automatically answer with the way that they earn money. I mean, there's 168 hours in a week, but generally speaking, most Americans work for 40 hours a week, and we instantly answer with what we do for 40 hours a week. Well, instead of answering with your. With your profession outside of real estate, say that I'm a real estate investor, I invest in real estate.

And then speak to your modality or speak to what your specialty is, is your specialty Commercial real estate is a single family homes. Speak to that. I invest in single family homes. I'm a buy and hold investor and I actually create cash flow so that way I can be able to, uh, give investors high return back on their [00:15:00] money.

Oh, really? Tell me more about that 

Axel: and then speak to it. Absolutely. And, and I think that's great, especially when you're basically hunting for money, so to speak. Um, now when we get a little bit one layer deeper, uh, and I've been in this, in this for a while, that's basically the traditional market. You have banks and lenders and DSCR and FHA and all these kind of, um, different, more traditional, more institutional lending opportunities.

If you qualify, I guess have to say nowadays. And then the other side is basically more that non-traditional, private, um. Space for basically the same purpose. So when we are staying with the residential real estate, and I don't mean like a developer who wants to build a hundred unit neighborhood or something like that, but more like our investors and the majority of our audience, we wanna own single family homes or duplex, triplex.

Um, we want to maybe every once in a while buy a bill to rent. When you're looking at the [00:16:00] community that you have been able to open up for lending these kind of private people who want to put their money into real estate without necessarily owning the real estate themselves, what are kind of like the most common numbers as far as how, is there a certain amount, you know, range?

Is there a certain, like how long are they willing to lend? What is their expectation in returns? Can you speak a little bit about that? Certainly. 

Roger: So, uh, what I have found is that when you know your business and when you have conviction around your business, when you communicate it, you're going to draw the right people to you.

What I mean by that, and this kind of comes back to sales and marketing, when. Whenever you're going out and you're making a sale and say for example, you reach out to one individual and that individual says no, and you're like, no one wants to buy my product or service, and that's not the case. You need to talk to more people.

So when you know what you're looking for, I'm looking for [00:17:00] $20,000 to offer a return over the course of the next five years at six to 8%. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna roll out into another property thereafter if you want to continue for that second round when you have con, when you speak. When you know exactly what it's that you're looking for now it's a matter of going out there and communicating that repeatedly because you're gonna, people are going to self filter into what you're looking for and if their terms, if they want a little bit different terms, and now it's up to you to say.

Do I want to take that on? So what I've been able to do is I've been able to, uh, speak to the fact that I'm looking for, you know, 15 to $25,000 to invest in properties in this part of the country where houses are between, uh, 75 to $150,000. Right. And people are like, oh, wow. You know, 'cause where I live, I live in Phoenix, Arizona, and properties here are, you know, just a, just a, nor just a quote unquote normal house is $300,000.

So when I'm talking. With my, uh, people in my circle and I'm sharing with them that I'm [00:18:00] investing in houses that are, you know, between 75 to $150,000 and I'm seeing cashflow of $300 plus a month. They're like, wait a minute, really? How could I get in on that? And they get really excited because the conviction carries through by the way that I'm communicating it.

Right. So then the other thing that I think, uh, that definitely should not, I would be re remiss if I did not share this, is that build a personal brand because. When I'm reaching out and I'm talking to people about these, uh, opportunities to invest in real estate, well, people, if I don't know them personally, then they'll throw me in the Google.

They'll Google Roger Wesley and they'll find information and they'll see. I have a website. I've, I have several websites. As a matter of fact, I post on several platforms. I talk about the things that I'm doing on a regular basis. So it's social proof. It's the same way if you went to a a, an institution.

You wanted to get funding for your, for your business or organization, they're gonna go to your website. They're gonna go and look you up. They're gonna go see, do you have your d and b number? [00:19:00] Do you have your EIN? I hope you have your EIN if you're gonna be looking for funding from us. It's the same thing.

It's the same thing when you're a real estate investor. Where is your social proof? How long have you been doing it? And even if you just got started having something out there. On your website, on your social media, on your social media platforms, not just one. There's this concept that I've learned and this added a lot of value to me.

Hopefully this adds value to, to, to your audience as well, but it's called seven 11. Four, having seven hours of content on the internet where people can have 11 different interactions with you across four different platforms, then people will know, like, and trust you before they get to invest with you.

And that's what I found has been a tremendous help in terms of helping me to acquire people that are looking to invest in the projects that I'm working on. 

Axel: Okay. Very good. And, and I totally second all those aspects, uh, that you have mentioned. I went one step further. I don't know if you have [00:20:00] yet, and actually for the model that we developed as Idea Wealth Growers model, also put that in a book.

So if somebody really wants to dive a little deeper without spending a few hours talking to me. Would get the book on Amazon and then you can read the model and how it works and why it works and all that kind of stuff. So that's kind of a variation on social proof, but I recommend doing that. I. It sometimes makes the conversation a little shorter.

Like when, when to that question, what do you do? Right? Like, uh, you can say, well, I'm running a business, I'm a real estate investor, and I wrote a book that describes how that works, right? That is pretty much in most cases enough, unless somebody has any kind of specific questions, but you have ticked like the most important high level boxes.

If they want to, if they're a little more modern, not my age, they would say, okay, why can I find you online? And you can, like, it's probably 10 platforms. Uh, [00:21:00] now, Racha, I wanted to ask, um, I think your conviction, your energy, your focus comes across, even in our conversation, talking about it, when it comes to this aspect of raising money, for example, for those kind of deals that you mentioned or similar deals.

Are you offering that as a service? Are you helping people doing that or are you mainly focused on, on this corporate business support? 

Roger: I'm mainly focused on the corporate business support, but I have members of, uh, my family, I have people that ask me all the time about this topic in terms of how to be able to raise capital.

So I haven't offered it as a service, but I have, uh, certainly offered the, the assistance to anyone that's, that's asked or come to me and, and, and looked for the information. And one thing that I would share that. That I think is very valuable in this scenario is, you know, Mr. Axel, if I was to ask you directly how many people that you've acquired this concept of private money from, and then [00:22:00] when you look at from each one of those people, how.

Many interactions did they have to have with you in terms, uh, before they invested with you, and did you find that, you know, for example, 50% of them had to spend at least an hour with you, or they had to spend at least two hours with you? Figure out what those metrics are. Can you get someone to invest with you after four hours of interaction?

Okay, well now it's your role to gather four hours of information that you share with them, whether that's via book or whether that's via a. Know the means, but figure out what it is that, that, that those people need. The, the, the people that you've already acquired money from. Figure out what it was and how much time it took.

And then try to, not force, but try to funnel the people that you are working with or that you're looking for to go through that program or to go through that same level of. Uh, information that you share with the people that you've successfully acquired as investors and just duplicate the system [00:23:00] because once you've proven it, proof of concept that you can get one investor, then guess what you can get to.

Once you've proven, you got to guess what, you can go get three or four. So try your best to really think about what it was that you did with that very first investor that you acquired, or if you haven't got there yet. Just continue to go out there and communicate about it on a daily basis over and over again.

Everywhere you go, then you're gonna get that first conversation. Then document it. Do you know what you're gonna say? Do you know what you're gonna say when we talk to that investor that's looking for money? For example, you know, my name's Roger Wesley. I'm six foot three. I'm 250 pounds. I don't have to think about it.

Do you know your investment metrics? Just like that. How many homes do you have in your portfolio? What's your buy box? Do you know these things off the top of your head? Just like, you know, your name, your height, and your weight. I would say get that down first. Um, and then once you have that, then you know, that takes a lot of it.

That takes a lot of it outta the way. But to answer your question, um, you know, I. You know, I, I, I work with family and friends if they [00:24:00] ask, and I'm certainly willing to share any insights with anyone that's looking to learn more about that. 

Axel: Right. And I think what's important, and this kind of closes the, the circle in a way from where we started today, is that it requires a certain confidence, a certain attitude, a certain mindset.

And I would add maybe a certain level of conviction, because at least for most people who are. I would say successful in, in their main occupation. We started out speaking about, you know, what do you do 40 hours or 50 hours a week? And for that, most of the time they can not just rattle down what, what it is.

Oftentimes one of the first things is, well, I don't want to get too deep because there's so much detail that I know I'm trying to kind of like simplify, right? At least that happens in self-talk. It might not come out of the mouth and investing, and this is actually my opinion for anybody listening. A lot of people have fallen victim [00:25:00] to the intention of people in the investing industry to make it sound like investing is easy and you don't need to know much about it.

That is actually wrong. Right, and, and one of the biggest things in that context is this whole travesty of a 401k plan. I don't want to open a new can of, of worms, but it is basically training people to not even care. A certain amount of their income is gonna be taken away, is matched by something from the employer without really fully understanding what is happening there or why it's happening.

And then it's going somewhere in a dark hole where some so-called professionals trade as many times as possible for insane fees to then supposedly build your retirement income. And I've asked so many people, even people who are interested in investment, to tell me exactly where do your monthly 401k contributions go?

What? What is it buying? Nobody has a clue, right? So basically if you turn out, okay, what does that mean? It [00:26:00] means you can't answer that question for one of the probably most important things for the rest of your life, and that is being pumped into you. So having the right mindset, the right attitude, the mi right conviction brings the focus that you just mentioned, Roger, to be able to answer.

Here's what I'm doing beside my job, why I'm doing it, what do I want to accomplish? And these are the criteria or the numbers associated with it. For you and me who are doing this on a regular basis, every day, it becomes totally second nature. Anybody can ask me number of properties, how do I calculate a good deal?

What am I willing to pay? How much is the down payment? How much does financing cost? And so forth and so forth. Even to the point that we put 500 episodes on podcast. But that's, you know, like, that's a choice. It's not that I don't have, you know, other things to do or that I don't help, like you do companies to succeed and improve in their business.

So I, I really admire that [00:27:00] you basically have that duality and that you're, you're bringing that message around. Now if somebody says, okay, I want to get to know this guy. I want to see if Roger can help me in some way, how would they go about that? 

Roger: I kind of hinted at it earlier, but um, you know, if you throw me in the Google Roger Wesley, you're gonna find roger wesley.com inspire to excel.com.

Um, I'm active on LinkedIn and Instagram as well at I am Roger Wesley and I'm also on Facebook at Roger Wesley. And, you know, I would say those are the easiest ways to get in contact with me. Because again, my passion is, is helping people. And it just so happens that I am able to help people through investing in real estate.

I'm able to help people and leaders through multiplying, um, income and scale throughout small communities and larger communities in the business world. Um, so if they're looking to get in contact with me, I would say, uh, drop me a line at, you know, roger wesley.com or, uh, connect with me on LinkedIn. 

Axel: Very good.[00:28:00]

Cool. So at the end of the, of each episode, I always ask one or two questions unrelated to investing or business or stuff like that. So today I would like to ask you, Roger, if you could meet anybody dead or alive, who would it be and why? 

Roger: Ooh, that's, that's a loaded question. Do I get one person or do I get two people 

Axel: or 

Roger: one?

Normally 

Axel: you get one. So let's see who you would pick. 

Roger: Well, you know, for me, um. I've had a, uh, amazing life thus far and, uh, everything that I do is value-based. And, um, there's this concept by Stephen Covey that talks about writing out your values and making value-based decisions. And my number one value is my faith.

So as a follower of Jesus Christ, if I can meet anyone. Dead or alive. I choose the living Lord and Savior of my life, Jesus Christ, to meet him and to be able to, uh, fellowship and to, you know, learn more about his ways because, um, I, I have quite the story and I [00:29:00] know that I've seen him active in my life. I went from being homeless to a homeowner in six years.

Um, I've actually, um. Been shot before. Um, you know, I was, I, I wasn't in a, you know, precarious situation per se. It just so happened that I was in the wrong place at the right time and, um, my life was saved, my life was spared. So if there was one person that I could meet, it would be Jesus Christ. 

Axel: Okay. Any particular things you would put into that conversation?

I would ask so 

Roger: many questions, like how in the world. Why, why, why did humans get to this place, to where this is a way that we're earning money? You know, how is it that we're getting to the place to where, um, now we're taking and we're putting the, the most valuable thing, which is time and relationships above, uh, a above the way that we're earning income, you know.

Or excuse me, below the way that we're earning income. You know, it just, it just blows my mind [00:30:00] how we make such money based decisions. And I would ask, how in the world do our brains get to this place to where all we can see is, you know, this, this tunnel focus. How do we become not one dimensional, but 2, 3, 4 dimensional.

Being a great father, being a great husband, and creating great income for our families. You know, how do we get past that and how do we help other people to overcome that so that that way they can do it in their families and across their sphere of influence that those are some of the questions that I would ask for.

Sure. 

Axel: Yeah, absolutely. And, and those are very interesting questions. I mean, one of the things, and you touched on it, and I think we discover the more we talk to each other, um, kind of similarities or parallels in approach and thinking in perspective. Um, this thing you said earlier about like 30,000 foot or like really a high level from, from above, big picture, uh, perspective.

Um, what it has taught me in a way is to say, [00:31:00] okay. What are people focused on and why is that the case? Is that based on your beliefs or is this based on what you've been told to focus on? I find it somewhat sad that the latter is oftentimes the case, right? So absolutely I leave, I leave it at that. But that's, um, at least a little bit of a comment that I wanted to make is people should ask themselves.

And with your help, since you are basically inspiring and focusing people's mind in, in certain directions, or at least bring. Then to think about certain questions. My contribution would be ask yourself if you focus on what you believe or if you are focusing on what other people tell you to focus on.

Roger: Hmm. That's heavy. Yes. That's a can of worms that we could open and unpack and we'd be here for another six hours being for sure because I spend a lot of time in that can of worms with people. 

Axel: Yeah. That always happens when somebody says, I want to talk to Jesus. Right? Yes. Alright, Roger, thank you so much for being on the show.

I hope [00:32:00] we can do it again and we remain connected. Thank you. Absolutely. It was a pleasure.