High-margin, Low-complexity Businesses | Franchise Expert

Cliff Nonnenmacher has owned and operated various franchise businesses, including Cartridge World, Personal Training Institute, PuroClean, and Maid Right, as well as non-franchise companies. He has also developed well-known domestic and international brands like Four Seasons Sunrooms, Contours Express, Island Fin Poke, and Krak Boba.

[00:00-05:09] Started at 8 Years Old

[05:10-06:15] Insights into the Franchise World

[06:16-12:09] Reality of the Food Industry

[12:10-19:01] The Future of Jobs

[19:02-24:58] Invest in Practical Skills

[24:59-30:08] The man ahead of his time

Special Mention: Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Harvey Firestone, Elon Musk

Reach out to Cliff at: https://franocity.com/

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Chapters

• 0:00 Started at 8 Years Old
• 5:10 Insights into the Franchise World
• 6:16 Reality of the Food Industry
• 12:10 The Future of Jobs
• 19:02 Invest in Practical Skills
• 24:59 The man ahead of his time

Transcript

Cliff: [00:00:00] Because you have a 24 7 robot or AI pumping out product and pumping out material. No sick days, no lawsuits, no nonsense, no union, no strike. No political bias, no nothing. Just output. 

Axel: Welcome to the Ideal Investor Show. This is the podcast where we help you challenge your mindset and discover where you are.

Let's go. Hello and welcome to another episode of The Ideal Investor Show where we talk about money and how to make more of it and how to keep getting. Coming in and we do that with great guests. And today we have a special, great guest, like all the great guests are special, and it is Cliff Nha who is here with us today to talk about franchises.

Cliff, welcome to the show. 

Cliff: Well, thanks so much. I'm happy to be here. I. Thanks. Yeah, absolutely. 

Axel: Cool. Um, like I start with every show, I would like to first ask a little bit, uh, even though I read about it, but for the audience, tell us a little bit how did Cliff get to where [00:01:00] he is? Maybe summarize the last 10, 15 years or so.

Cliff: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Journey. Long story. Sean, I'll give you the CliffNotes version, no pun. Yeah, no, no, no. Yeah. Pun and no pun. So the CliffNotes version is been a serial entrepreneur my whole life, going back to age eight. Um, actually writing a book right now, kind of explaining my journey. The book is called Beyond the Brand.

It'll be out in September. So. Uh, eight years old started hustling, doing random things, little businesses. By the time I graduated high school, I created what I believe is the first Uber Eats in Marco Island, Florida, where we delivered food for even McDonald's, which would make me the first subcontractor in the country for McDonald's to deliver their food.

I even had a dedicated cash register, uh, just 'cause I did over a hundred deliveries a day on an island, three miles by six miles. So we were banging out deliveries constantly. That evolved into water sport concessions and [00:02:00] parisel boats on the Jersey Shore contracts with the Hilton Hilton Grand Vacation.

I'm dating myself. I owned a video store in Mock Island. There were only two. One was on one side of the island and one was on the other. Uh, it was called Network video. We ran that for years. Got involved in distributing the poly neoprene tube called the Fun Noodle that you float in the pool with, distribute that nationally.

Pivoted when I saw it at Walmart and got involved in all these different types of businesses and then. I became an investment banker after being in the Watersport business was a very profitable business. I had locations on the Jersey Shore and Marco Island and, uh, started trading, loved it, bought a satellite system, which at the time no one had a satellite system.

It was a DTN network where you get level one, level two, insight into trading. I took my portfolio to Wall Street, got jobs, uh, job offers. Took a job with at the time, Solomon Smith Barney, which is today, Morgan Stanley. Worked there for several [00:03:00] years, managing 250 million in high net worth assets. And then I had my shitty boss moment, right?

And I'm like, you know what? I gotta, I gotta, yeah. I'm not built for corporate America. There's nothing politically correct about me. I don't belong in that environment. I don't fit well in a grid square. Uh, I'm a born entrepreneur, which I knew, but for whatever reason, I viewed investment banking. Because you're not on salary.

Like it's look, you hunt and kill and drag back something to the cave. You're kind of on your own in that business. They give you an office. Yeah, they give you a nice office, they give you a nice, you know, little moniker to put on there. It's a fancy world and you're kind of going out and making it rain.

But you're still managed by teams of attorneys. You're managed by a branch manager, uh, and you're usually being managed by people that can't do what you're doing, which is bizarre. Most people are managing people. It's like the, the Peter principle, if you will. Uh, so I had to get outta there. I ended up buying an [00:04:00] Australian company.

This is my entrance now into franchising. I buy an Australian concept, which is called a master, and I bought the rights to the entire state of New York and Connecticut to scale a printer cartridge, remanufacturing, and refilling brand, and scaled 36 units in New York and Connecticut. I. Sold it, moved to Florida and did it again and again and again.

I'm on brand 12, uh, as of right now. And again, I'm trying to abbreviate some of the journey just for the audience to level set, like who is this guy? Um, I'm invested now into pokey restaurants. I'm invested into crack Boba, which is a boba tea concept outta Southern California. We've been invested in restoration, multiple gyms, high-end residential cleaning services in Palm Beach County, Florida, uh, you know, flipping real estate, uh, all sorts of stuff, investing in real estate, investing in art, investing in crypto, just doing all the things that [00:05:00] you should be doing to hedge, mitigate risk, hedge inflation, and as I call it, retire uncompromised.

Right? Yeah. Very 

Axel: good. That's a great summary and there's a huge amount of stuff in there, um, with that much experience in the franchise world. I, I just have to ask it. I just recently read something. I, and you said you're in Florida, right? That's right. Thought I thought I read an article about, uh, somebody covering like Northern Florida and Georgia area for Burger King or something like that.

Mm-hmm. 60 or 70, uh, franchise, uh, restaurants, I think they call themselves, um, declaring bankruptcy. So. I don't want to talk about that. I'm just saying, you know, that happens obviously. So have you, with all that experience, all these different concepts, a few things where you can tell the audience, if you were to be interested to get into franchising, what are some of the [00:06:00] skills, what are some of the things that you either need to have to bring to the table or.

Get from you with your help, with your consult. Yeah. So forth. That's a great to make it work. 

Cliff: That's a great statement. And like most people don't even mention the negative. And I, and I and I, I appreciate that you did it because it's like, it's not all fluff and perfection and execution and you're gonna get rich.

It, that's not it. There's a ton of problems as you just quite rightly mentioned. Um, I don't like food. I don't like food. Pre COVID and I don't like it post COVID. I think food is an interesting investment that rarely relies on. An economic reason to do it. If you ever speak to people that wanna invest in food, it's all platitudes feelings.

Reminds me of my mom. My grandfather worked in the kitchen with me. It's like, is there an investment reason to do this or is this just to bring back like good childhood feelings? And then these people buy [00:07:00] these, these restaurants if you will, not necessarily Burger King, but restaurants, the food space.

They're doing a million a year in revenue and they're making like 80 grand. It's like, what? That doesn't interest me at all. I, I literally have no interest in any, I wouldn't even get outta bed for less than 15%, 20% net. I have no interest in razor thin margin business. Now, on top of that, bring in COVID.

Bring in inflation, bring in the rise of everything from sugar to cocoa to, but I mean, name it, eggs, but this is like a national headline. These egg conversations, right? Bring in. It's, it's like you add all these layers of complexity to your business and, and then there's me and I'm going, I like asymmetrical stuff.

Asymmetrical, low investment, high margin, very few employees. I am not throwing product out that didn't sell today. I'm not doing it. [00:08:00] The concept of throwing away my inventory because I couldn't move it that day, that week, that month just flies in my face. Could you imagine being at like Home Depot? It's like, Hey man, you gotta clear out aisle nine.

We gotta throw out all those Milwaukee to all that shit's gotta go. Yeah. It's like, why we didn't sell it this month? You gotta get rid of all of it. Yeah. Like the concept of throwing away food. It just goes against everything that I believe as a disciplined investor. It just goes against all of my beliefs in business.

I'm sorry. And again, when I hear people say, oh, I'm gonna own this and I'm gonna own a chain of that, I. There's a ton of food concepts filing for bankruptcy. There's a ton of businesses that are filing for bankruptcy 'cause they're fundamentally flawed, raise within margins. They, you know, look at the Dollar Tree.

Here's a perfect example and I've been recorded saying this. You create a business called the Dollar Store. What are you gonna do when inflation comes and a dollar is now three. You built your whole business model on the Dollar Tree, the the [00:09:00] Dollar Store. And I walk in there and everything's five bucks.

And I'm like, and guess who's in trouble now? Now guess who's closing hundreds of locations? All these dollar crappy brands buying this stuff overseas. And you created your whole business model with, without even thinking about inflationary environments. It's just, it's just weird to me. So. One of the things that I have learned, I want to get back to your question.

I wanted to touch on the food, the food comment that you made about the bankruptcy. Hooters just filed for bankruptcy. You know, Applebee's is closing locations. Uh, Del Taco was closing hundreds of locations. There's a lot going on out there in the food space. Why? Well, it depends on what state you're in.

You've got ridiculously high minimum wage. I'm sorry, no one is worth $20 an hour to say, would you like to biggie size? You fries? No one is worth that. What's gonna happen, and you know this to be true. What's going to happen is these states, these politicians that have never created anything in their life, [00:10:00] right?

They're pushing these high minimum wage prices and all it's doing is gonna counter punch with ai, robotics and humanoids. And that's where we're headed. And all these jobs that you and I refer to as your first job, go back to your first job. I'll go back to mine. It was working in a McDonald's. Those jobs are dead.

They're dead for our youth. They're gone. They're all being replaced by ai. You could walk into a McDonald's right now, a modern McDonald's. There's no one at the front counter. Nobody, I. That's where we're headed. Absolutely. 

Axel: No, no. I'm, I'm with you and I don't want to beli that, that, uh, food thing too much.

But I think you gave a nice segue because before we started recording, we were kind of thinking about which, which parts of, of all the many things that you do, should we light shine a light on a little bit? And when you mentioned the minimum wage thing, um, you know, like the two things, if I had to answer that, that, um, point [00:11:00] about, go back to where you started, it would take me back to a nursery, which I think will have like a nice, not the nursery itself, but what it actually produces will be a nice occupation when we all don't really have to have minimum wage or otherwise wage jobs.

But I'm also, I wrote down why you were speaking the word optimist, because that for me, you know, when we talk in investing, that's why I'm a, a Tesla shareholder because everything that they have done so far will pale in comparison to optimist, in my opinion, in like the next 15 years, maybe less. Probably less so.

This is maybe a little bit in unusual, unexpected for the audience, and I know that we are not talking very much about real estate right now, but I mean, we're talking about what can you do from a business perspective to make the money that you might want to use to invest in real estate or in stocks or in gold and so forth.

So we talked about technology, we talked about ai, we talked [00:12:00] about robotics, and you mentioned just now with a minimum wage. Where do you see this going, both in general terms, but also from a franchise perspective? 

Cliff: Great question. Great question. So here's where we focus, like we're living in a time right now, and we're living in a time where at the same time you're introducing quantum computing with artificial intelligence, with robotics, with humanoids.

Never has all of that been layered in the same weak month year. Usually these things are gapped by years. It's like, remember when? And then a decade later, remember when, and then remember what this is all happening at the same time. And I, and, and I, I, and I guarantee you that really probably no one listening truly comprehends just quantum computing on its face because the, the speed at which that can make decisions is like taking a question that would take, let's say, 500 years to solve [00:13:00] and they can do it in milliseconds.

That's how frightening this is, and this is why I truly believe. What, what Goldman is saying, and McKinsey is saying, relative to ai, over the next, let's say five, 10 years, 300 million jobs on this planet will be eliminated. I. That's just a reality. And I think that, I think that we may be entering, like we're complaining right now about the price of eggs, and we both laughed at it, right?

But we may actually be on the phone right now where we're at the peak of inflation. And with robotics and AI and quantum computing, you enter a deflationary period because you have a 24 7 robot or ai. Pumping out product and pumping out material. No sick days, no lawsuits, no nonsense. No union, no strike.

No political bias, no nothing. Just output, pure output. I. So I, we may be entering a deflationary environment, which is gonna be great because 300 [00:14:00] million people are gonna lose their jobs. But to buy things is gonna be super cheap. That's, that's at least, that's at least the way it's supposed to evolve.

There's no reason to kill 300 million jobs and the cost of a house is still 1.5 million for a two bedroom built in 1965, somewhere in Long Island, New York. Right. That's, that's insane. Everything needs to deflate from there. So all of that being said, I focus and my partner focus on five areas. We've coined these things, certain names to resonate with our investors.

Number one is what we refer to as the feminization of men in America. Why do I say that? And I'll, I'll tell you, and it's not to be political. Because we really have, we have feminized men in America. The first thing is men can't use tools anymore. Most men cannot use tools. They can't actually fix anything in their own home, so they have to make an outbound dial for tree trimming, pest control, drywall repair, fixing a high hat, installing a chandelier.

They're, they basically can't do [00:15:00] anything. On top of this feminization comment about the inability to use tools and to be self-sufficient, we have destroyed. Men's testosterone levels and we have destroyed their sperm count, we've destroyed them to a point that both sides of the aisle in the last election refer to I-V-F-I-V-F-I-V-F.

Can you imagine like this is a thing on a political platform because our youth can't repopulate? This is, this is sad. This is sad. See, the funny thing is, I 

Axel: have to interject here really quick. It was all supposed to be because they didn't have enough money or they didn't have finished college yet and so forth.

And now yeah, if you're, I mean, I find it so comical in some sense. Um, if they somehow flip the switch and say, okay, this is all gone now we want to, and they still can. Exactly. 

Cliff: Exactly. You can't make this up Sometimes. I don't know if it is this parody or was that real headline. 

Axel: I mean, one of the things, and we don't wanna make this [00:16:00] political, but obviously when you look at my lifetime, for example, and I feel very, very blessed that I married to a woman who said, okay, we are not going to eat this crap.

99% of any kind of supermarket we walk into, we cannot even and don't even wanna touch. That's right. 99% and. What is on the flip side, and a lot of it is also you mentioned inflation and deflation is who is frequenting Places like the Dollar store, the Walmarts, the targets and stuff like that or other, uh, like I and, and whatever supermarket chains we have is the consumer who is basically.

Ingesting the stuff that leads to what you just said to the feminization, to the low sperm count and so forth, because it's not just people were born into this age and, and therefore it is that way. It's literally continuous from, from when they stopped, which some never really got, [00:17:00] uh, milk from their mom.

From that moment on until they die, they get basically continuously poised. Right? That's right. And you can't, you can't, I just wanna make that statement if, if the demographic thing that everybody, especially Elon is talking about, that the world might go out in a whimper with diapers, is because of what we are eating.

That's right. 

Cliff: That's exactly right. I can I echo everything you just said, that, that, I mean, I, we could get really deep in there and I, I actually get it kind of into that in our trends, which is the anti-aging piece. But, um, I appreciate your comments. Going, going back to that feminization of men, it's like, are you just saying this for a salacious headline?

No. Franchises are backfilling. The fastest. This is a fact. This is not, not like, you know, people always say one of the fastest, no. The fastest growing brand in the history of franchising was a testosterone therapy franchise last year called Game Day Health Fact. Fastest growing franchise ever. They [00:18:00] sold out the entire country in less than 18 months.

No brand has ever done that. Subway's never done it. McDonald's never even came close to those kind of development numbers. Can you imagine? Like what I just said, it wasn't fast food, it wasn't something, you know, porn related. You know what I mean? Like think of fast growing ear, early adoption. You know, people want all this nonsense.

No, it was testosterone therapy clinics was the fastest growing brand in the history of our industry, which has been around since the invention of this, uh, the singer sewing machine. Yeah, so that's a long, that's a long runway. So what what's happening is franchises are backfilling now. Anything in home services Got it.

HVAC, plumbing, electrical, lighting, roofing, painting. And people don't realize how much money's in this stuff. They really don't. I mean, I've got brands that are just doing millions because they're not sexy businesses, but they make an ungodly amount of money. I ask people, [00:19:00]

Axel: sorry for interrupting again. No.

I think in this context, if somebody is right now finishing high school, literally this is really what, and I'm coming from Germany, your last name is, is very German. If you look at the comparison between the United States, which I've been in now for 30 years and, and Europe, one of the big differences is how do you get into an occupation and without going to the, the traditional and still common way is to learn a trade.

The exception is to get any kind of college degree. So my, if if I, I mean I'm old, but if, if I had kids getting out of, uh, high school right now. Mm-hmm. Piggybacking on what you were just saying, you are so much better off to learn a trade. Anyone that you like, anything that you're interested in than wasting four to six years on something that you're not, never gonna be able to apply.

It's just a reality. Um, you know, totally agree. It might not, it might [00:20:00] not be considered. I don't even agree with the statement. It's not fancy or flashy. That's only because we've been taught that it's supposedly not. That's right. That's right. We, the reality is that any of those trades. Has much more satisfaction because you know, at the end of the day what you actually did, and you can like make your little tick marks on all the clients that you served and so forth, um, versus like writing a hundred email responses or whatever.

Anyway, I'm just saying, you know, if I had to give somebody advice on what do you do with your career, then rather learn a trade and open a business or a franchise in that trade than getting a degree. 

Cliff: I, I completely agree with you. We have crapped on the trades for the last two decades. Yeah. Mike Rowe.

Mike Rowe is out there pushing trades. Trades, get in the trades, become a plumber, make a couple hundred a year. Right, because the demand is there, the talent isn't. There's, look at HVAC. It's an aging out. Industry, they're aging out. It's like a shoe [00:21:00] cobbler. They're just aging out. It's like all these different businesses that are aging out, and we're not backfilling with our youth to say, Hey, I did that in high school.

No, you couldn't have done it in high school because the school systems have failed you miserably by removing woodwork. Removing shop, removing welding, removing home economics, removing anything that will make a man manly or make a person a productive human being in society, public schools are a total abysmal failure.

They get an FI say it every opportunity I get until change comes. These kids deserve better. They're not prepared for life, period. And I agree and agree that is part of the problem. 

Axel: Agree with. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, the interesting thing is since we touched on ai. I don't know if you saw the announcement, but Alex Karp, the CEO of Palantir, just announced that they started as of this kind of school season, uh, program, internship program for high school graduates.

Saw where they say, if, if you normally [00:22:00] take a gap year, which when I was young, that didn't even exist, but let's just claim that that is a reality. Through the gap here as an intern at Palantir, which is one of the top performing software companies and AI companies. Mm-hmm. And if you like what you're doing, you will be trained, you will have knowledge, you will have standing and you know, you can start right away and, and skip the six years that it would take to become a computer science major.

That's right. That tells us something. It's not just because it's a cool company and, and great opportunity. But that kind of a company saying, I couldn't care less what you do at college. That That's right. Come here and work right out of high school. Right. So it's not just trades. I mean, yes, I'm always on the horse about trades, but it's even for those kind of companies that say, Tesla is, by the way, the same thing.

They say, we don't care what degree you have. You just come and you show what you can do. And if you do it well, you, you can, you're hired and you will have a career for the rest of your life. 

Cliff: That's right. [00:23:00] Yeah. Elon has made that crystal clear. I agree with you. Well, what the, what corporate America is realizing is that you're outputting MBAs and you're outputting all these high degree people.

That the, this piece of paper is a full sense of I'm intelligent. It's like, no, you're not, you were not prepared properly for the real world at many of these Ivy League institutions. Political sciences degree is not monetizable. Right. Your gender studies degree you cannot monetize. And I love that they're all ripping them on TV with all these, I, I love this.

It's like, yeah, that's about what it was worth. You know, this whole Palestine thing and they're ripping up their degrees to, yeah, that's about what it was worth. It was worth nothing. I mean, it's just, it's just crazy that you, you could, you could have this conversation and go a mile deep. Uh, you know, it's, it, and I, I do believe though, things are starting to shift and part of that shift is not a company saying, don't go to college.

It's a company saying, please know, we don't value the college over the [00:24:00] character and the intelligence and the work ethic and the ability to. You know, collaborate with the team and the ability to have an undying devotion to the cause or the project or the company. Like that's what we're looking for.

It's like that old saying, right? What, what, what was it? Uh, you know, attitude determines your apt, your altitude, not your aptitude. Yeah, absolutely. 

Axel: Yeah. Right. No, I'm with you. And I mean, the thing is, ultimately, if you really think about it, it totally makes sense, not just societal perspective, but. The original idea was to enable people to do fundamental research.

That's what that was originally meant for, and we kind of twisted it just as we mentioned earlier, twisting our nutrition. We twisted it into this piece of paper is required for anybody to get any kind of job, which it never was intended to be. So in, in that sense, I think it's, it's good to come back to the roots a little bit now.

Uh, cliff you made. Strong points, and I'm sure there are many more that you could make. If people [00:25:00] listening to us and listening to you and, and what you do are intrigued, how can they get in touch with you? 

Cliff: They can, uh, our website, so ity.com, F-R-A-N-O-O-C-I-T y.com, and they could just request information.

What we, what we do is free, so it's a free service. Nobody believes free, so I just kind of go ahead. My way to let him, I, I always, always say it's complimentary. That sounds a little better. I know, believe it or not, that word free in an email is like instantly spam. It is the most abused word in the human language.

Yeah. Well, but I 

Axel: think we should explain that. Obviously organizations that look for people who want to join franchises are interested for somebody to qualify them for, for them. So I think if you put it that way, you, you use the perfect analogy to bring it back to our. Real estate investing interest to the audience is like a real estate agent who gets paid when you make the match between a seller and a buyer.

Right. And that's exactly how I've [00:26:00] compensated. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I'm paid by the seller. Cool. Yeah. Thank you for that. One other thing I wanted to mention, I normally don't ever do this in our podcast, but in this case, I think, cliff, you touched on something that I personally find is very important and maybe you yourself might be interested.

There's a new book out by a guy that I really admire named Tony Siber. The title of the book is Stella, S-T-E-L-L-A-R, and Tony makes an attempt together with his partner James. To describe what you mentioned as this very rare inhumanities history transition period. Right. We know about Industrial Revolution.

He compares another one of those with the invention of the wheel, with the invention of fire. So this what you earlier mentioned as far as what's going on with AI and robotics and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. He, he e equates the age that we are [00:27:00] approaching. With those kind of massive transitions for humanity.

And so I really recommend for people to look into this book because if you're wondering how could this look like, he has really some very interesting ideas supported by really strong evidence. I. What's kind of cool is the guy, especially Tony, has made these kind of future predictions for the last 25 years and almost all of them, maybe not on the.as far as when, but almost all of them on the.as far as what is actually happening did happen.

Wow. That's wild. Yeah. Good 

Cliff: big changes are coming. 

Axel: Yeah. So I asked all the guests at the end of the show one or two questions, so I want to ask you one of those as well, and that is, if you could meet anybody, who would it be and why? 

Cliff: Yeah, so I've been asked that before and I consistent throughout all of my years.

I lived in, uh, Marco while in Naples, Florida, and I had an opportunity to frequent, uh, Thomas Edison's some winter home. Uh, and I was just [00:28:00] fascinated by this man. I would, I would just love to, I mean, this guy was ahead of his time. Really ahead of, I don't think people really, truly understand everyone, everything.

Elon, Elon, Elon, and I love Elon. Uh, but Thomas Edison may be the most prolific inventor with more patents than anyone, just to get in that guy's head. I mean, this guy had a padlock on the outside of the door. He would have people lock him in until he came up it. It was crazy. There were bite marks on phonographs 'cause he had, uh, hearing issues.

So he would bite all of his rec, I'll call 'em record players so they could hear the music and make sure it was tuned right. Th this, if you, if you're ever down in Fort Myers, Florida, go, go check out the Henry Ford, Thomas Edison uh, museum, which was his winter home. It is fascinating. And him and Ford were super close.

Harvey Firestone, like these guys, these titans all hooked up together and we're living in their world right now. Like the tire on your car came from Harvey. 

Axel: Yeah, go ahead. I mean, if it were possible that we could like somehow, you know, [00:29:00] get that opportunity time travel or something like that, I would also want to know if we really said about those 1500 tries for the light.

But, uh, the things that, uh, supposedly what he said, you know, with all these attempts to ultimately get to a working solution. Because I, I think that has a lot to do with mindset, right? And a lot of the things that you mentioned that are very successful franchise opportunities, I believe have to do with step back, take a look at what is wrong, what needs solutions, and what solutions are out there that you can get involved with.

Cliff: Absolutely. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. 

Axel: Okay, cool. Well Cliff, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was exciting and I think there were probably 20 other topics that we didn't touch on. But, uh, thank you again for your time and maybe we can do it again. 

Cliff: You got it. Thanks Axel. Appreciate 

[00:30:00] it.