The IDEAL Investor Show: The Path to Early Retirement

Ep 99 CEO Explains How to borrow from your life insurance FASTER

• Axel Meierhoefer • Season 3 • Episode 4

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As a veteran and thought leader in his space, Tim Yurek's insights have been featured on major media such as Bloomberg TV and have earned him a seat at the Million Dollar Round Table – a global, independent association of the world’s leading life insurance and financial service professionals. In addition, Tim has earned the designation of “Top of the Table” within the Million Dollar Round Table, which recognizes the top 1% of professionals in his industry globally.

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Welcome to The IDEAL Investor Show. This is the podcast where we help you challenge your mindset and discover where you are tired of stories about other people's success, we can help you change your life, determine your time freedom point, and join us on the journey to financial success. Let's go. Hello, and welcome to another episode of The IDEAL Investor Show where we talk about how to increase cash flow and reach the time freedom point sooner rather than later. And today, we want to talk a little bit about what kind of tools we can use and what are different options out there. And we do that with Tim Urich. Tim, welcome to the show. Axel, it's certainly My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. So as we stopped before we dive into using tools and how you do it and what you recommend, and how we can maybe help increase our cash flow. doing that. Tell us a little bit. Who is Tim Urich? How did you get to first capital? And what do you guys so it's certainly My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. So as we start, before we dive into using tools and how you do it, and what do you recommend, and how we can maybe help increase our cash flow? doing that? Tell us a little bit? Who is Tim Urich. And what do you guys do? Oh, well, our company is tier one capital. And I started in financial services industry, I have a degree in economics. I wanted to apply my degree. And basically, you have three options. Realistically, you can go the route of banking, you can go the route of investments, or you can go the route of insurance. And, you know, I really never saw myself in the banking realm. And I did an internship with Dean Witter. By the way they don't exist anymore. I remember, I'm old enough. Yes, insurance sort of intrigued me, but I didn't know enough about it. Well, long story short, I ended up going down that path. And as fate would have it, the insurance industry. So this is back in 1985, the insurance industry sort of morphed into a full service, financial planning, you know, you need to get your investment license, etc. So then we were recommending investments, insurance, etc. And everything seemed to be okay, I was doing things by the book, I was growing my business and having a pretty good level of success. I qualified for the million dollar roundtable, which is basically about the top seven to 10% in the industry. And I was thinking things were going pretty well. And then I had this epiphany moment. And so this was the Christmas of 1993. I'm now an a, an adult. And me, my brother and my sister were at my parents house for Christmas. And we're sitting around the table after dinner talking about the good old days. And my dad worked in the coal mines, and he would get paid on Thursday, my mom would get his pay, go to the grocery store, cash his check, because that's what you did back in the day, I paid whatever utility bills which you could pay at the grocery store, or there was a hardware store, you could pay the utilities, and basically rinse and repeat every week. Everything was good. But every once in a while, my dad would come home on a Thursday night and not half his pay. And what we didn't know and we found out later, was that the reason my dad wouldn't have his pay is because the guy who owned the plant would would have his wife did the payroll. Okay, so he would he would go home at lunchtime on Thursdays, get the pays the checks, and bring them to the plant and then the guys would get their their checks. But sometimes he would not get back to the plant before the shift was over because he would stop at a bar literally, to have a few drinks. So they were the knights and it was sort of like as a kid. It was an adventure for us. Because my mom would after dinner, get me my brother and my sister put us in the car and then we would wait in front of this guy's house. He lived about 15 minutes away. And we would wait in front of his house until he came home drunk and get my dad's pay. That would happen maybe three or four times a year. But the one time when we were talking about the good old days was when the car wouldn't start after we got my dad's pay. That was embarrassing. So then my brother had a knock on the door and the guy came out and we asked to use you know, he didn't have a jumper cable so we call my uncle. We use this phone called My uncle he came you know, this is before cell phones. Right? Right, right. Yeah. And we eventually had to get the car towed etcetera. So the Christmas of 90 Three were talking. And I said to my mother, I said, Ma, why were we there? And she said, I had to get daddy's pay. And I said, Why didn't you just wait till the Friday, when he came home, she said, Honey, we live pay to pay. If I didn't get that money, they were going to turn off the gas bill or the electric bill. Or, if we're close on the rent, she said, I needed that money. And here was my epiphany. So at this point, I'm 31 years old, I'm making really good money. I'm in the top 10% of producers, in my industry, and I'm freaking live in pay to pay. I'm doing everything by the book, I'm living the advice that I'm giving. And I'm broke. And embarrassingly axle, there were times where I had to borrow money from my dad to pay my mortgage. Okay. Now, just to put this in context, my dad was retired at this point, I was making six to seven times what he ever made in his best year, and I had to borrow money from him. So it became clear to me and the epiphany was, it's not the amount of money you make that matters. It's the amount of money that you keep. And the epiphany moment was, my gosh, if I can't figure this out, and I'm broke, and I'm doing pretty well, what does the average business owner or the average family person, what chance do they have of figuring this out? The answer was really simple. Stop giving up control of your money. Now it sounds nobody in your audience believes that they're giving up control of their money. But you got to understand we've been trained and use our money in a way that is detrimental to us and beneficial to the financial institutions, large corporations, and the government. And because of that, it's just ingrained in us that this is the way to do things. But what I found after the Christmas of 93, was that there's a different way to do things. Now immediately, I stopped doing certain things. And constantly, again, put putting things in context. It wasn't a lot of money, but it was a lot of money for 3030, some year old guy, I had about$150,000 in a retirement account, I had equity in a house. But again, I had credit cards, I had car payments, I couldn't put my hands on 2% of what I earned the previous year, because all of my money was in a place where I couldn't get access to it. Well, only if you pay fine or something. Well, right. You have to pay a tax and a penalty. So I figured some things out on my own. And then I started researching and found that there were actually ways there's a, like a financial planning approach that teaches people how to be in control of their money. And I just started, I devoured all of that information, I put it to work for myself. And in a very short period of time, and I'm talking probably about six months, I never had a look back, I had enough cash to do any and all the things that I wanted to do. Because it wasn't the amount of income that I was making. It was how I was using my money. And I call this the financial golf swing. So if you want to get better at golf, to use an analogy, there are two approaches. Number one, you could buy the best equipment. And let's face it, the club manufacturers are out there, every year, they come out with a new model. And they're telling you that this is the best, this is the best driver, these are the best irons, this is the best putter. And then next year, what do they do, they come out with the best. And the year next year after that they come out with the best. So the tool, the club is the tool. And so if you want to get better at golf, you can either buy the best clubs, or you could work on your swing, how you're using that tool. And that's exactly what we teach our clients how to do. We teach them how to use their money more efficiently, so that they're in control. We look at things through the lens of you being in control. And when you're in control, we have a saying Whoever controls your cash flow controls your life. And I want to talk to you, Tim about you know, how do we actually do this? Or how do you advise people to do this. But before we do this, I have one question that I'm suspecting could be really helpful for at least some of our audience when you take that story and ask yourself why or what were the things that resulted in you not having even 2% At the end of the month or the end of the day. For that in hindsight. Yeah. So what we found is there's five areas five major are areas where you're unknowingly and unnecessarily giving up control of your money. Number one is taxes. Number two is how you're paying for your real estate. Number three is how you're funding your retirement. Number four, is how you're paying for your children to go to college. And number five is how you're making major capital purchases, major capital purchases, axle are things that you can't pay out of normal cash flow. Yeah, I agree with that. One thing I have to say, and this is maybe something I should repeat more often than I do, being grateful for the way I was raised. And you know, Germany at the time was different in the 60s and 70s, than maybe the United States. But what I observed, since I came to the US is that there seem to have been, at least in the past, in those years that you spoke about it, I'm not so sure that it's really gone by now, some notion of pride comes with the amount of stuff you accumulate. Yep. And some version of that, and I was kind of curious, right, like, I mean, living paycheck to paycheck can be based on just having barely enough money to cover the necessities of life, like really the bare necessities, or the which I think is more prevalent these days, is consciously or subconsciously competing with other people to be able to tell them or show them in the driveway or otherwise, when you open the garage door, or invite somebody to a party or to the house, or whatever it is all the stuff that's being accumulated, which sometimes may even in the first beginning sound like something that is useful. But I wonder how much this consumerism, which is similar to what you said about the golf club, right, where they claim that they did R&D For the last 12 months that made it like X percent better. And when you add it up for the last person, they made it 500 last 10 years, they made the club 500% better if you just add the r&d results, which is like impossible. But my point is, you know, to me, that is a very important component. Before we dive into those five areas, what you basically described about being in control, I think it's an important thing to get across as part of our conversation today is people to ask themselves, how much am I being convinced of needing things without really having first decided what you really need to achieve your goals? And if it's in support of achieving your goals or not. And I found with our clients oftentimes that as soon as they ask that question consistently, they realize that a lot of stuff, you know, like six different streaming services, for example, I'm not saying you shouldn't have a streaming service, and I'm not saying the$20, or whatever it cost per month is that I have an expense that it really makes the massive difference. Or when you have five or six, you really seriously should ask yourself, if that's your goal of example, financial independence, or financial freedom or anything like that. And you can start there and go to any kind of the other expenses. So that is just my little spiel on that. You mentioned those five areas, or would you say is the best starting point? Or where's the best starting point? To start taking control? Yeah, so you have to do some introspection, but two things. And I'll get to answer that question. My mentor, Nelson Nash, who created the Infinite Banking concept, he wrote the book becoming your own banker. He used to always say, people in America buy things that they don't need, with money, they don't have to impress people, they don't know who at the end of the day, don't care. And so I mean, that's so beautiful and is so spot on two different stages, I guess, to this issue. One is the people who are living pay to pay, and they have to do some introspection on the consumerism, do I need six streaming services? Do I need all of these, you know, monthly subscriptions, etc. But then there's people who are doing things, right, who make enough to cover their expenses, their lifestyle expenses, and they're in the second and third phase where they're actually saving money over and above what they make. And they're investing money over and above what they save and make. And those people what we found is we they're still not in control because of where they're putting their money and how they're doing it. Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's why I think it's so beautiful that you are with us on the show today. So let's dive into that at least On a few levels on how we can change that. Yeah, so our process is really simple. It's a four step process where, number one, we identify exactly where you're giving up control of your money. And you will agree 100%, I guarantee that you, once we explain it, we're not just going to say, Axel, you're given up control of your money in this area, this area in this area, we're going to say, no, here's where you're giving up control of your money. And these are all the reasons why you're giving up control. And when we walk you through that educational piece. You're like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Yes, I could see where I'm giving up control. Because, again, you're giving up control of your money unknowingly. And unnecessarily, that means you don't realize it. And it could be fixed. But first part is, is to identify where you're giving up control of your money. That's the easy part that I asked him to what is the question of why you're giving up control plays any role? Oh, absolutely. This is the way we've been trained by financial institutions, by large corporations, by the government. This is the way we've been trained to use our money. Yeah, and I mean, I totally agree with you one, one of the prime examples for me, along that path or journey is 401 K plans. Right now, people can debate whether they're good or bad, whether deferring taxes is right or wrong, whether you really have more or less to spend when you retire or not. But when it comes to control, and I think that is such an important thing. I oftentimes from our clients, I hear, okay, that is a means for me to put money aside, and my employer is actually helping me by matching part of my contribution. And my first question, and I'm really kind of curious, what you say about that, if I'm too harsh with with with people, is to say that still doesn't explain why it's not self directed. That's such a great question. You have to examine what your goals and objectives are. That's where it starts. If your strategy on how you're saving money, is not going to meet your short term, midterm or even long term goals and objectives, then why are you doing it? And I used to, I used to say to folks, back in the day, you know, people would walk around with their 401k statement and say, Here, I've got $400,000 in my 440 1k. And my response to that is, well, how much of that is yours? And they're like 400,000, I said, No, that's a lie. And you're perpetuating that lie. What are you talking about? Well, part of that money is the government's right. And so when you get your every time you open up your statement, whether it's every month or every quarter, what you're seeing on that paper is a lie. That's before taxes, let's put it that way. Exactly. Right. So you have a partner in the 401k, you have a partner. Now, Axel, if I said to you, Hey, Axel, I got this great business idea. And I'm gonna float it by you to see if you want to invest in it. But here on the surface, here's the way it's going to work. You're going to put up all the money. I'm going to you're going to take all the risk, I'm going to determine how much of that money is yours. And how much of the money is mine. Here's the contract, would you sign that contract? Well, I wouldn't sign that one. And I think it's actually a little worse, because they say I go into to determine how much is used in mind and 40 years from now. Exactly. I'm not telling you now I'm telling you. Right. So the point is, that's what a 401 K or retirement plan does. You put up all the money, you take all the risk, and the government determines how much they need, and how much of of your money is theirs. What I brought up the thing about the question, you know, like, why are you doing it this way? And why is it not safe to protect it? And the answer that I get often and I'm sure you get equally as often is because I don't know enough about investing. So basically having it said to experts, financial planners, you name whatever the term you want to use. And they do that and I get my thing, and I'm always saying have you ever thought about and you know, we both obviously you have these anecdotes. If you say I want to spread the risk regardless on what exactly the underlying asset is. And you believe you spread the risk by just trickling a little bit In all these different places, right? And then you give somebody permission to change these places constantly to make their own numbers look good. How is it that you believe that that is the most efficient way compared to somebody who says, I don't need matching? I don't need deferring of taxes, I just need a certain amount out of my paycheck every month, where I determine with my risk tolerance, what the best place to put my money is, and I think that brings us back to control. Right? I mean, I kind of stumbled into a WTO situation as a consultant. And it was just too juicy not to do it. And they were all shocked when I said, Okay, I'm just gonna do the safety fluid. I'm taking your money. And I know that I have to wait a little now. I mean, I was, at the time already be on the 59 and a half. So it wasn't penalty or anything. Right? You say, Okay, well, I have been investing in this one or two sees one or two stocks myself. So I take this money for that, but fundamentally to ever say, Okay, the reason why I'm doing it is because I don't want to learn how to have control over my money is really something that I think we both tried to educate people, it's not the best way to go. Exactly. So I think we both agree on the on the retirement accounts. But we talked about Infinite Banking and cash flowing, and so forth. And I want to take a little bit of time, during our conversation for you to tell us a little bit how that works, and how people can benefit and how that accelerates cash flow. Yeah, sure. And again, let me let me sort of step back and answer your first question, which is our process. So the first step is to identify where you're giving up control. The second step is the hardest step, you got to stop giving away your money. Now, it's not that easy, because it's things that everybody is doing. It's things that all the quote unquote, experts tell you you should be doing. But it's separating you. And again, when you look at things through the lens, it's separating you from control of your money. But when you look at things through the lens of you being in control of your money, your decisions on what you do and how you do it, are so much easier. You're doing things with greater clarity, because now, it's real simple. If I put my money in this 401k Am I in control? Right? So step one, identify where you're giving up control, we can do that 100%. Number two, you got to stop doing it. Number three, now that you stop doing this, you've got to start saving it in an area where you own and control it. Right. And that's where the Infinite Banking comes into place. That's where you're gonna warehouse your money. And the fourth step is really where the magic happens. It's where you borrow against yourself, for things like major capital purchases, to purchase real estate, to buy cars, to go on vacations, to pay for your children, to go to college, to pay for a wedding to pay for a vacation, and then pay money back to yourself. And if you understand how that process works, and we can, you know, we that's what we do, that's what we've been doing since 1997. All of a sudden, your money never leaves your control. Your money is always working for you, not for the financial institutions, not for the government and not for the major corporations. So can we just to make it a little bit more practical? Take like a quick example of somebody who makes I don't know, like maybe 100k or so a year and does the traditional stuff and how that kind of transitions through those four steps? Yeah, it's a great question. Usually, we get people who come to us, they usually come to us in we call it in crisis. Their child is a senior in high school. And the kid kid wants to go to college. And the parents did the they filled out the financial aid form the FA FSA. And they find that it's going to cost $33,000 A year to send Johnny or Susie to college. They don't have it. Right. They didn't save any money in it, like for college, and they're completely unprepared. So how do they do it? What we generally do is we show them how they're number one giving up control of their money. Number two, if they stopped doing that, they'll have enough money to to pay for the kid to go to school. And number three, show them how to finance it. Using the Infinite Banking concept, and borrow money from themselves and pay interest back to themselves. So if we were to say you mentioned that earlier, somebody says, Okay, I have, maybe at that point with the kids coming out of high school 100,000 in their 401 K, what would you then suggest for them to do? So we wouldn't want to take money out of the 401 K, okay, because that could be a problem. But a lot of times, we would recommend that they either stop putting in money over the match, or stop putting money in completely, okay, into their 401 K, and that'll free up some cash flow. In general, they might have some home equity. So they can borrow against their home equity, and use the unmatched 401 K contribution to pay the, you know, the mortgage, if you will, or the home equity line, right? As you know, so that would be that would quickly free up some cash flow that they can utilize and access some money. But the problem is if they take a home equity loan, and they don't pay it back, now, they're they don't have the money for either next year or the next child. But that might just be a matter of, you know, even if you take a lion, you can do interest plus principal, right? So if you okay, my 401 K contribution, used to be a $10,000 a year or something like that. And you put that back in, I mean, that doesn't cover your $33,000 for the kid, but at least is some amount that goes back in the line. And you can obviously always hope that appreciation helps you out a little bit, I wouldn't necessarily say this is a long term solution. One thing that I've done myself, and I'm kind of suspecting you would recommend to is to say, okay, when you take the money that you can really better allocate from not in your control to in your control, and put it into something like a whole life policy, then, you know, the life insurance can use the money to invest it in a large bundle approach. As soon as you start having some amount of money together, like maybe not in the first year, but within a relatively short period of time, you can start borrowing against it. And due to the policy and your contributions, you don't really have to give it back. Because the worst case you can run over by a bus, you're covered by the policy. And if not, then you paying in and ultimately reached the whole life term limit, or lent or whatever you call that. And either you have done the equity to get it out, or it's all paid for. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, so our process is, again, identify, you stop, save in an area you own and control, which is a specially designed whole life policy, borrow against it. For those things that you need to to purchase again, and then ultimately show you how to use the dividends from the policy to create passive income in retirement. Right. Well, I think that will be then like, almost like a third level approach. One quick thing, and I know we're coming here to the end, but one thing that several of our clients have asked, and we rarely have an expert like you to maybe get an answer to that. Is there some way to see it the whole life policy faster than just the regular contributions and maybe even using funds that are like in a 401 K or something? Yeah, you I mean, you can certainly do that we generally don't like to take money out of a retirement account to fund it. Okay, because they're there because of the taxes and the penalties. Now, the taxes might actually be a benefit. Right. In other words, I agree that, you know, but that is so far up for debate that it's it becomes a slippery slope. Certainly we I really honestly, between you and me, I don't think we bought we would disagree I we just look at in we are now at 33 trade. Yeah, it's just a fact. And we know that within the next 10 years, Social Security is either going bankrupt or contributions would have to skyrocket which nobody can afford. So the only way to ultimately get to somehow make this game continue to play is to increase taxes. I think it nobody needs to be a rocket scientist to figure this out. Right? We can deny it and come up with all kinds of interesting accounting schemes. But the reality is, we are now at 1 trillion a year in interest payments, and we keep increasing rapidly. So anyway, but my point is more like obviously if you say Oh, Hey, I want to use my own money and borrow against my own money and I start a policy even if I were to put 1500 a month in, right? So then I have like 18,000, after one year minus whatever the agent gets, it would take several years to really make that a substantial amount of money. And what we have been contemplating whether somebody has it sitting as equity, or in 401 K or somewhere else, if somebody had 40 $50,000, forget, for a moment, the penalties and the Texas and stuff. Is there a way what I call the seating a whole life policy, basically, in a quick step, and then keep paying monthly or not? Oh, yeah, I mean, there's there's all different types of designs where, you know, based on on what your access to money is right now, and what your cash flow is, we can design it where you can put in a large lump sum, and then a pay monthly or just pay monthly or just use a large one lump sum, and then maybe next year, put in a smaller lump sum. So I guess if I'm, if I'm understanding your question, there's there's a lot of variety, there's a variety of ways that we could fund this. But the key is this. And this is one of the fundamental issues that people don't seem to not understand about Infinite Banking. And it's this, at the end of the day, you're buying a life insurance policy. And in that life insurance policy, you're only going to earn somewhere between three and a half and five and a half percent, I mean, it's not going to, you're not going to get rich owning a life insurance policy. What the insurance policy can do for you is make all of your other money more efficient. And so you get an internal rate of return in the policy. And you can utilize that to generate an external rate of return, use borrowing against the cash value. And I'll give you a really quick example. Back in the late 90s, a client of mine, he had been with me almost from the beginning. So it's probably about 1215 years. And he didn't have a large policy. And he didn't, we didn't fund it initially for infinite banking, because I didn't understand or know about Infinite Banking until like 1997. But he came to me, and he said, Hey, my high school friend, and this guy at the time was in his early 50s, my high school friend left the area. He worked for a large health care company, and he's coming back, he wants to raise his children in Northeast Pennsylvania, where he grew up, and he's going to start a business. And it was a novel thing at the time, it was called hospice, right. And this guy worked for a large healthcare company. And he would go in do a feasibility study in an area, let's say, Tampa, Florida, do a feasibility study. And if it came back that it was it would have been a profitable thing for a hospice unit, then he would go and build the hospice unit, and then go to all the local doctors, get them to refer patients to the hospice unit. And then once he got it up and running and cash flowing for this health care company, they would move him to Chicago, Illinois, or, you know, all around the country. Well, he decided he was going to do the same thing, but do it for himself. Right. And he was going to come back to Northeastern Pennsylvania to do it. So my friend, my client calls me and said, Hey, I need$50,000 to invest. And you know, he had money in a 401. K. He had money and equity in his in his house. And I said to him, Well, Tony, you have 50,000 Like he had about $54,000 in his life insurance policy. I said, you know, you could probably borrow against the life insurance policy to do this. So he said, Well, geez, that makes sense. So he borrowed against the cash value of his life insurance policy, and initially paid back interest only. Now his friend, this they signed a contract and his friend said he was going to pay him 8% per year for five years and then in five years, he was going to pay him the $50,000 back. Well, as things turned out, he didn't get a payment in the first year. He didn't get a payment in the second year. But in the third year, he got a payment for the pat the back three years and the$50,000 that he borrowed plus the 8%. He was supposed to get paid in the fourth and fifth year, so he was paid off completely. The business now at this point is cash flowing. And he his friend said because you helped me, I'm gonna give you equity in my company. And he gave him 12%, which was commensurate with the amount of money he had invested, right. So he had 12% equity in the business. Now think of it this way, in the life insurance policy, he paid back the loan in the third year, he paid back all the interest that was due to the insurance company, which at the time was only 5%. He kept the profits from the interest the difference between 8% and 5%. And now, that policy is back to where it was going to be when he got it, are we heading not borrowed. But through along the way, this gentleman got a cell phone paid for for he and his wife, health care for he and his wife. They got distributions from the hospice business, they also started a billing company that they spun off in about eight or 10 years. And my clients share of the spin off when they sold the billing company was 120,000. And then, in 2013, I believe it was they sold the hospice business, my clients share was $1.8 million. His 12% share. So here's the point. What was the rate of return in that life insurance policy? Yeah, about four or 5%. But because he had access to his money he was he used that to generate an external rate of return return that we can't even calculate. It's kind of almost infinite. Exactly. But that's the point. And Nelson Nash used to tell me this, he said, Tim, when you have access to money, opportunities will find you. Right. So hopefully, that that makes sense. Yeah, that's, that's a great story. And that really makes it obvious. And maybe not everybody story is going to be quite successful. But having the money still, I think the little cherry on the icing of the cake is that he was always insured. If anything had happened, so his family would have never had to pay back that money in any way. That was while it was with the other company. And it was still, since you borrowed against it, you didn't take it out, I think that's a really, really important component to somebody whether the insurance company or the bank gave him a loan against the equity of the insurance without really taking those 50,000 out. So the whole 50,000 still made those three or 4%, even if you've gotten it back. So those are the components that make it really so interesting. And I know this is not so easy to completely wrap your head around on the first goal, but I think it's very worthwhile considering it as one means to grow basically the overall portfolio. So as we come here to the end, I want to ask you the two last questions unrelated somewhat to investing, Tim. So the first one is, if you put meet anybody who would it be and why? I would say Thomas Jefferson, okay. When you think about, and I know that there were many people involved in the creation of our country. And but the founding fathers, the thought that they put into creating our republic, they left literally left no stone unturned. And It's sickening to me to see how we are trying to overturn everything that they did. And, you know, we have what we have here is the greatest experiment in the world. And it's so so valuable, and we represent freedom for the like, we're a shining light, like Ronald Reagan said. But unfortunately, it's been bastardized and almost vilified. But I would love to have met Thomas Jefferson, just to get into his his thinking and, and an understanding, you know, they understood what tyranny was. So, yeah, that I would say Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson, I'm sure. When you do if that happens, you know, you have to ask him, at least for the main parts of the Constitution, like in a sentence or two for each one. Paragraph what the underlying intention was, because I'm really frustrated oftentimes to listen to people who try to explain things that at least for me, and I think I'm a pretty logical person. They're just Not there are some stories that people have tried to interpret. And sometimes it's advantageous to say I want to make it the way it was 1776. And sometimes it's Oh, no, they could have never anticipated how it would be in 2023. So yeah, it's whatever fly. So yeah, you have to ask him that. The other final question is if you had a time machine, Tim, and I mean, obviously, since you can talk now to Jefferson, you wouldn't go exactly the same spot. But if you had a time machine, where would you go? I think I would, I would love to go back to post Civil War United States. Okay. And, you know, I think it was sort of like the Wild West, but also, you know, reconstruction, and it was the unleashing of our economy. And so I would love to have been in that in that era. Why and if you go there, you can check if all the games that they played in Pennsylvania with reenactments if the accurate. Yes. Okay, well, when we started, before we hit record, you said that there is something that you have specially for our audience members for those who listen and waited to the end here. So please tell people how they can get in touch with you and what they should put in for the little gift that you have. Yeah, so we, you can go to our website, www dot tier one capital, and that's T i e, r, the digit one, C A P i t a l.com/ideal. Investor. And we'll have a landing page there. We'll have a giveaway. It's called the six critical questions you should ask when looking for advice from a an advisor for business succession, or executive benefit planning. And it would you know, I would say slash cashflow. And so we we can give that away to your listeners as well as they'll have the ability if they want to sign up for a strategy session. There's no cost or obligation. And we'll spend a half hour trying to figure out what your goals and objectives are and how we could help you to get there quicker. Awesome. Yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you so much for giving a gift to the audience Tim and for making time to talk to me and to our audience about how to keep control. Well, Meyer, you are definitely Derrick Rose in podcaster. Thank you so much.