Who is the Guest?
Our Guest for today, Franco Perez is going to give us the facts about Mobile Family Homes.
Having grown up in a family with an unstable housing situation, Franco is on a mission to create affordable housing in Silicon Valley. He discovered that the Bay Area’s mobile home parks offer an abundance of underused land with great growth potential. After years of dedication to his vision, Franco has established a devoted team of like-minded individuals who believe that their positive impact equals success.
Inspired to reimagine mobile homes and expand affordable housing opportunities across the Bay Area, Franco's talented team strives to unlock the pathway to homeownership and help families establish financial security where it might otherwise seem impossible, especially in this time of the pandemic.
Beyond his drive to develop cost-effective housing, Franco also enjoys videography, showcasing some of his favorite local restaurants and local small businesses, and promoting San Jose’s unique culture to the world.
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Hello, today, I really want to have us pay close attention because we have a guest that has a similar background like me, but I believe he probably had an even harder journey and more challenging journey to get to where he is. It's Franco Perez is his name. And what he found out is that in particularly expensive areas, like for example, the San Francisco Bay Areas, they are still to this day, a lot of mobile home parks, and most of the mobile homes, if you really look at it, relatively ordered, ordered fashion. So he thought I want to do something about it, I want to find a way to allow people in high priced areas to live a better life and maybe even have ownership of a facility. And so he came up with a way to create modern nice, really great mobile homes can have custom made almost, but way, way less expensive than what is typically in these really, really high price area. So he's gonna tell us how can people make money out of it? How can people join him, but also, how can actually a business like that be a source for cash flow? Hello, and welcome to another episode of The IDEAL Investor Show where we talking about the past to early retirement, and what kind of different types of investments and money movements and stuff like that we can do. And as you know, in season two, we have this umbrella term of cash flow and always want to have interesting guests that have something that helps us to either have more cash flow, or better cash flow or higher cash flow. And so today, I am really, really glad that we have Franco with us because I had thought I knew something about what he is doing and how to use it and so forth. And then I looked at the website and found out maybe not so much. So Franco, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me Axel appreciate it. Yeah absolutly, no you're more than welcome. And we love to have interesting guests that are innovative and want to do something even though it may be revival in a sense, right. So before we go into exactly what you're doing, tell us a little bit, how did you actually get into the business that you're in? And you know, did you just sometime have like this epiphany that some people talk about? They're sitting at the beach and thinking about the world and then they realize, ah, mobile homes is what I need to do. Oh man no, actually, there's a lot. There's a lot that kind of happened. But you know, me personally, I came from the Philippines at a young age, I had immigrant parents that moved out here. It was actually, it was a rough situation that happened. My dad was only breadwinner for the family, they divorced, he fled the country and left me my mom and my younger sister all to our owns to survive, right. And we're here in the Silicon Valley where it's very expensive. It's very tough, I had to drop out of school just to kind of pay that rent bill every single month. And I remember me and my mom just gathering money together, we would borrow money from friends to just at the end of the month just to pay that bill to survive, right. And it's crazy, because there's a lot of places like the Silicon Valley where you have a lot of median income people, but very heavy housing payments to be able to live there. Right. So I remember the times where my sister was getting kicked out of school because we didn't have a proper address and going through all that struggle. And that pain, just trying to get out of the rat race, right. And what's unfortunate is, during that time, when you're in your bubble or group of friends, you don't, we're not really what's interesting is we're not taught a lot of these things that the wealthy are taught. There's a lot of important values that I wish I knew sooner. And there's tools to help get people out of that rat race. And real estate is a big one. Long story short, I found myself doing marketing for a real estate company. I asked for a raise, and he couldn't give me a raise. They're like, I'll teach you how to sell became a great real estate agent. And once I was like, at a very secure point, I had this epiphany. You know, I think once you're comfortable financially, then you start to have this philanthropic. How do I say this? I had this passion to really, I had this realization that in the real estate agent industry, the agents are really focused and trained to find the wealthiest people you can meet and help them find the most expensive assets that they can. And that's kind of where a lot of the industry goes to which is cool for people. But it really wasn't fulfilling for me. I wanted to find my life I wanted to put my life into Somewhere where I would help the people that were in my shoes when I was going through that pain because I know how hard it was. And I want to educate more people how to get out of that rat race. And I want to create stepping stones for people to get out of that rat race, right and explored a ton of different real estate options. The problem is in like, areas like San Diego or San Jose, or anywhere in the Bay Area, you're either renting it 3500 a month, or you're buying something at $1.6 million. And how do you even imagine the problem is the regular working class, the teachers, the nurses, they don't really make enough to be able to pay the rent, save enough for a down payment, and then even dream about ever one day purchasing a single family home. So I came across mobile homes and realize that, you know, hey, there's a ton of mobile home parks everywhere. And these mobile homes are built very old school, they have a lot of bad myths around them. The media and Hollywood makes it a bad stigma. And it's misunderstood, because that's all we see, we have no reason to go into a mobile home park. However, financially, in very metro areas, there's a lot of myths that are false, like they actually have been appreciating over the years, you can gain value, there are financing options, and it's a perfect stepping stone to get someone out of renting into getting some of those homeownership values. In that step, they'll be able to still work on their career and then boost themselves out of that into homeownership later down the line. Yeah, that's actually really cool. And we want to dive a little deeper into that, before we do that, I think it's a unique opportunity, because I don't very often have somebody like you who has this kind of really struggling immigration story. I mean, I'm an immigrant, in a sense, and we have many immigrants on the show. But oftentimes, it's like, in my case, people know this, I came over with a military and the military typically takes care of their own. And even when it was done with my military career, I was established enough so that I would qualify for a really well paying job. And I had somewhat of a choice where to be, and most of the other people who have a similar background, they came with their parents and then had the opportunity to go to school, find a regular job, realize that that's maybe not the thing they really wanted, and then did the thing that they did what I'm curious about, in your case, you describe beautifully. The struggle is the bubble that you were talking about so tight that there is no thought about, okay, we are hardworking, we are, you know, tight when it comes to the family unit? Why would you and your mom and your sister have decided to stay rather than go somewhere where it's probably cheaper to live? And where, you know, kinda like the effort you put in allows you a better life? I've always been curious. So if you don't mind, say something about it? Yeah, that's a very good question. I asked the same thing to that there's two sides to that. One is in a lot of the expensive areas. That's where the job opportunities are. That's one big thing, good weather, good schools, that sort of thing as well. Right. So that's one big element of it as well. But and then I always look at everything at a macro level to or from a zoomed out perspective. Let's say it is New York, let's say it is the Bay Area, we should have this American dream, there should be equal opportunity for the poor people and the rich people to live in the same areas and have the same equal opportunities. And now the freedom really is a financial freedom that people should be really chasing for. But to what you said is, for me, I think it was the job opportunities. I didn't want to go our family, they didn't want to be in an area. That was That's a good question. I should really look into figuring out why people stay in this area and that sort of thing, too. But usually, whether it's family member ties, whether it's a job that's locally here, or if they want to live here, because it's good food, good culture, similar people that are similar to them. Yeah, exactly. I think that is a very important component. And I mean, the answer that I found oftentimes, when we talk about a similar thing, not from an immigration perspective, but from a perspective of why are areas across the country purely from the financial perspective, so different and why I'm saying this is our overall strategy and ideal as grower is to afford and allow people and help people who live in areas like the San Francisco Bay area, or LA or New York or Miami or any pick any of the really affluent and expensive areas to say, well, I might, for whatever reason want to stay in that area. I might have this good job that pays me well. But I also know even if I can afford to live where I am It's pretty much unimaginable to have a $1.6 million investment property. So our strategy is to say, okay, you can choose, and you should choose where you want to live for whatever reasons that you have for yourself and your family. But there are areas in the world in the country in the US, like, for example, in the Midwest, where we then help people to invest with turnkey providers where they can still to this day, we just have one of our McCollum tribe members buy a duplex for about $180,000 with a three bedroom, two bath and three bedroom, one bath bath, those two sides and that place together, we make $2,000 rent. And if you think about it, you basically renting a three bedroom, two bath half of a house $1,000. It's not really unreasonable, and it's fully renovated, beautiful or brand new, but then they are also not making $120,000. They're making maybe $60,000. But that ratio between what the income is, and what they pay for rent is for lack of a better term much healthier. And when people ask me what why is that possible in some places, and in other places, not like I said, from the immigrant perspective, but people have eyes, they have ties to their college, where they went to and got their degrees, they have ties to the family, they have ties to the cultural values to live in a more conservative or more liberal environment, they have ties to their community, even if they're not immigrants themselves. But if you are in certain places in Pennsylvania, or stuff like that, and you like to have some German influence, like, you know where I'm coming from, or you want to be somewhere on the west coast, where you have Filipino or Chinese or Japanese influence, there are these groupings, I found out that somewhere in Minnesota there is like, Somali community, right. And it's kind of like an extended family kind of thing. So I was just curious. And everybody has a little bit of a different story. Now, you already hinted that what you now do, what has evolved, basically through your real estate, and I think for those people who don't know, real estate agency, or agents, this kind of an unfair thing, in my view, as well. And I don't mean this unfair to you as somebody who went through or it's been working through this. But I have, I believe strongly that the effort that it takes to sell an average house, not the top of the line, but an average house in the Bay Area and selling an average house, let's say somewhere in Albuquerque, New Mexico is not really that different. But the big difference is the house in Albuquerque, New Mexico costs 250,000. And most agents get paid a commission in percentage of the sales price. And like you said already, that relatively average house in the Bay Area is 1.5 or 1.6 million. And so if you make 3%, right, or 2%, then that's hundreds of 1000s, potentially, or 10s, of 1000s of dollars, and the guy in Albuquerque is lucky if he makes 10,000 on a sale. Right? So same scale, potentially. But again, the location makes a huge difference. I'm glad that you were there, because obviously that triggered for you to do what you do now. So let's transition. You mentioned mobile homes. Can you try to describe a little bit also what you show on your website about what kind of mobile homes and what makes you guys's approach different? Yeah, and to what I want to add a little bit to what you said earlier is because the truth of it is, you know, and it's nothing to blame agents or any of that it's just like it, the truth of it is, is that it is easier to make three times more on a more expensive home. And that's the truth. And that's part of why we built our business, it is more difficult to help people that are barely able to financially make it to afford these homes. Now, what we focus on is really building our systems to really create that opportunity and open that door wider for people. Right? And if, if there's nobody helping these guys, then you know, unfortunately agents are going to gear towards trying to help those that easily qualify for it. I was actually thinking you were to say Thank God if nobody else is doing it, then we do it. Or that too I love if more people could find solutions like this for me, like there's a point to where, you know, I could be making more on Commission's and that sort of thing on single family homes. And that's the truth. But for me, it's so much more fulfilling when you go to these families. And you see, I've sold rental and investment properties to wealthy people. And they'll be like, okay, great, you know, but when you see a family that's never been able to own something, when you get them a nice home that they get to call their own. Oh man, there's tears of joy every single time it still gives me goosebumps right now thinking about it, about how grateful they are, how thankful they are and how they never thought it would be possible that they'd have something like this. We should pause here real quick and really make a strong point about that when anybody in any kind of business this is at least my experience I'm estimating probably twice as old as you. So in my head slightly longer experience, everything has numbers and calculations and some logic and those kinds of things kind of like them what are called math side of things. And then there is the emotional side of things. And I would totally agree with you, I see this oftentimes with our investors who say, Okay, we want to sign up, and we want your help, and so forth. And they sign up initially for the six month program. Why? Because not quite sure if they really want to go for a lifetime support. And they asked me, What can we expect to get within the six months, and I always say, where my goal is that you at least once in the six months go through the experience to really become an investor owner, you own a property that provides shelter to other people. And it's similar to at least it felt to me when you were describing similar their reaction? Yes, we go through all the analysis and the numbers and does the cash flow and what's the interest rate and blah, all that scientific, mathematical. And when the closing is over, then comes the emotional reaction. And that is so much drama and so much more fun fulfilling? Where you have to say, well, that's why I really do it, right? Sometimes, actually, you should charge more. And I'm, well, it's more because if it were free, then people wouldn't value it. It needs to be a slight little pain. But the main point is that emotional reaction that people have when they get their property, whether it's for their own occupancy like you do, or if it is for an investment, because a lot of people like you said, they hear about it, and they get taught in the media that only rich people can do it, or you have to already be rich to ever be an investor. And when people like you, and I actually had them, and they realize, yeah, I can be one of those people too. It is doable, right? That emotional component is super strong. Absolutely in its energy, too. I mean, you know, there's people that want to help other people. That's why I love the middle class, and that sort of thing. There's so many people that volunteer and really care about people. And I think that you have that in me is like, honestly, if I even if I didn't make anything out of all this in which we didn't in the beginning is knowing that I'm able to help one family be able to build a foundation for their future that is so fulfilling to me that I just as soon as that happened, I was addicted. And I want to help more families build that first stepping stone and first foundation of wealth, right? I think it has a lot to do with remembering how certain things held. Now I don't want to give any kind of false pretense that I was really anywhere close to the struggles that you and your family went through. But there are situations when I first came over in the late 90s, to the United States. And for the first time I went with friends into a Walmart, even though Germany is not a country or anything. And yes, we have supermarkets, but a Walmart was just shocking, right? Like just the sheer size of a place under one roof, having all of these kinds of stuff. And those, those are kinda like experiences you remember. And I think when somebody had the opportunity to have those kinds of experiences, you can relate to other people when they actually have those kinds of experiences. If you never had it, it's very hard to relate. Right. So I think that's also why it's more impactful. We don't want to just talk about that, even though I think it's important and maybe interesting for the audience. So tell us a little bit what kind of typical units are you building? How big are they? How much did they cost, the aspect that you put on your website about the quality? Tell us a little bit about the product? Yeah, so basically, I can describe, I'm wondering, I'll actually I'll just explain it through audio. But basically, a lot of mobile homes were built in the 70s. They're about 700 square feet, single wise one or two bedroom. However, these are built in key areas like San Diego like LA, like San Jose, really, for temporary housing for the workforce, farmers, temporary working people and what it was designed before it was a high density housing. But with a lot of these lots, there's a lot of land that can be optimized. So we'll find a lot of these will work with park owners or mobile home owners to help optimize their land. You know, it's kind of like you have a plot of land that's big enough to hold a 1500 square foot home. However, your home's only 700 square feet, hey, if you double your square footage, the value of your home would be nicer. Plus, we can get a loan towards that and we can raise the value more than what we would spend on the construction to build this home to be double the size. There's a ton of benefits to it. Okay, before you go on, can I just ask real quick? Would you say the majority of the homes that you guys create go on Parks and then the owners rent them? Or do you sell them basically to people and then they rent the land to have it in the pond? Yeah, so most of our business are mobile homes that are in park or that or any mobile home park where you pay a space rent variable that are different in every different location. Sorry but what I meant is, as far as I know, there are two options, right? Like the park owner, the owner of the land, basically, you can see, okay, I have an empty space, and it's a 35 year old old unit that is being hauled away. Now we want to put a new one Franco Can you give us a new one that they wanted, then rent on, I also noticed they just rent the land and anybody who has or will buy a home from you can put it on the empty lawn, what's the majority of what you guys do? It's the second to what you said, it's the later one, which is, most park owners won't be owning the home itself to rent out. People actually own the house and park owner owns the land and rent it to that house owner. Exactly. So they only collect the rent on the land section, kind of like a high HOA payment, right. And then the owner of the home above is owned by a resident own, you know, user, which is good for government used to because they consider this affordable housing, because it allows for people to be able to own these, what's great about this is that you can't purchase this to rent it out, which causes it the price to stay stabilized. So anyone that's purchasing in has to be an actual person that has that as their primary residence, you're not dealing with investors in that way. So and then basically, the customer, for lack of a better term would basically pay if it's a loan on the house that you built for them, they pay on that loan as one payment, and they pay for the rent of the Lord, so to speak as the second payment. And then the third would be the utilities, I assume. Right? Exactly, exactly. So for context flies, let's use san jose as an example, average, rent for like a two bedroom apartment in this specific area I'm talking about is about 3500. Now, there's this specific client that I'm thinking about her name is Hazel. She works in the medical field, whatnot, she purchased our first mobile home that we built. And that one was about 1450 square feet, three bedrooms, two baths, and her payments, instead of her choosing to pay that rent of 3500. She pays, I have the numbers here, the space rent was 1000 a month, her mortgage is 1900 a month, and her down payment was $30,000. The mobile home itself was $300,000. So her total payment with the space rent of 1018 100 mortgage, that's 2800. Let's call it 3000 A month. But with that she's paying less than what she would for an apartment, plus she's getting benefits of owning something and two thirds of her payment is going towards the mortgage, versus a whole amount going towards the landlord's for rent, right? Twice the space that's maybe not that unimportant either. Exactly. The space and surprisingly, a beautiful, brand new home. And then on the other hand, she's able to really save up as well. Oh, I'm sorry. So on the other hand, she was originally trying to purchase a single family home. And if she were to try to at that time, it would have been $1.5 million, typical down payment would be$140,000. And her mortgage and taxes would be about $8,400. Right. Actually I have to interject a little bit. For those who don't do mental math that quick. That's only a 1% downpayment that you just assumed were even less, right. So that's very rare when you have 1.5 million 1% would be 150,000. So even the first time homebuyer with all kinds of government support and percent. Yeah, well, I've seen down the lowest I've seen it three, but if you go 3% That's more than 100,000. Right? So 10% is 150,000. Right? So Downpayment is half of what the mobile home value is, I mean, the mobile home equivalent. Yeah, and let's focus a little bit more on that. Because some people in the audience might say, okay, Franco just said that the mobile home was about 300. And I don't know how many people really have an appreciation exactly what goes into it, and so forth. So can you talk a little bit about what type of homes you build? Let me finish on that example of Hazel because she bought that two and a half years ago, and she bought it for 300,000. Now, if she were to resell her home, it would be worth about 370,000, which is appreciated by a lot in only two and a half years. Right? And why is that? Can you describe why where the appreciation comes from? The appreciation comes from really the surrounding area about you know, what are the alternative options for people that are working in this area. So it really follows the real estate market when home prices appreciate. And then when home rents appreciate as well guess what, this becomes a more viable option. And people are starting to really understand how this works. However, it's kind of similar to like this $1.5 million home that we're talking about. If we were to go to Kansas, that would be like$150,000 but the location that it's in the mobile home park that it's in because It's walkable to Samsung to Google, that sort of thing. People would pay a certain value for that location to be able to live there. Yeah, that totally makes sense. Maybe another way to put it is if you think about okay, you said earlier the apartment 700 square foot apartment and costs maybe 3500. But two years ago, if that was 3500, it's probably 4000. Now, right? So it's 20% More as well, for inflation and other reasons. So the same people in the same area, looking at what are the alternatives would also be willing to pay more, I suspect. Now, that begs the question, one of those myths that I didn't know about, but it sounds like if I were to be in the area, I were a customer of yours, I would be Hazel, or my daughter is Hazel, let's say and biased. And that means it's kind of implies and to me if I'm right about this, that you could actually sell it. Right. Exactly. And there's a good resale value. There's a good demand for these in areas like this. Are you in San Diego actual? Yeah, yeah. So actually in San Diego as well, we're building a few homes out there. Also in projects there too. But more and more recently, are people finding out about how mobile homes work online. And you can actually look into these, how these communities look, with millennials and younger, they don't have that false stigmas that feel like these are trailer trash for drug dealers, or criminals, and that sort of thing. But if you actually take the time to look into these parks, you'll see that they're very safe communities and the people that live here are high. You know, we have a lot of people that are high income, or people that have come from owning single family and just want to retire. And because they have alternative investments, like with you like having a lower payment on their housing would allow for them to enable to purchase multiple out of state rentals as well. Yeah, totally right about that. Yeah, totally. One thing, I think for people who are intrigued to hear about this, can you describe a little bit the differences between the mobile homes that you built, manufactured housing and ADU's? Yeah, so I guess when people think of mobile homes, they think like trailers, trailer, parks, that sort of thing, which there are some like in outer metro areas, but these mobile homes are really homes that are built in the factory, that are considered mobile, because they're built on steel i beams that are allowed for the building to be transported on wheels, on the freeway into these parks and that sort of thing, that most of our homes are double wides to their to large units that are built with a very high quality standard. With the new construction standards that you'll see in any new bill is actually the standards are higher, because they have to be built strong enough to be able to be transported. But that being said, factory built housing and manufactured housing and mobile homes have all become a big trend lately, because construction is a very big issue that's coming in the future. So when you look at how much attention is being brought to this space, it's now being used for ad use. It's now being used for modular developments. It's also being used for multifamily apartment buildings with multiple floors. So it's the same construction factories that we build all of these items. It's just we're using these in mobile home parks. But the same factory is also building Multi Floor units and governments are now allowing this it's starting to open up to where they need this to create affordable housing in their cities. Yeah, I understand. And thanks for explaining that. I mean, part of the reason I wanted to ask that question, since we have you on the show is Europe. There's also something called manufactured housing. But the difference, the biggest difference that I'm aware of is they build it in a factory just like you said, but they build basically the components of a house. So they bid the walls with the windows and the doors in it and the electricity is already in it and stuff like that. And oftentimes these are even like pretty solid materials, but they don't build something where you can say a 1400 square foot unit and when it's in place, it's going to be two trailers that are basically pulled by a large truck. They basically come with a huge truck, but where the walls and the roof and appliances and some of the things they are all in pieces, almost like if you imagine more like a puzzle, and then you have a concrete foundation with all their regular you know water and gas and whatever other pipe sticking out and then three days they put all the puzzle pieces that they had originally built in the factory together and you have the house but when it's there when it's ultimately put on that foundation, it's basically permanent you can just come back like I would imagine if for some reason somebody were to close down their park and somebody is a tenant so to speak with their personally owned units that they bought from you Franco in the park closes they can ask the truck company to come again and move it to another time. Right and with these European manufacturing houses, yes, they are manufactured in a similar way, but you can never really move them again. So that's the difference now on adu is or what's called auxiliary dwelling units, which I know is a big thing, especially in California. Are there any size limits on you know, could we use one of you or like maybe smaller 1000 square foot units as an ADU? It's really interesting. You're saying that because not to talk about our podcast, too, on your podcast, but we have a podcast where we actually specifically talk about manufactured housing and how it's the future of construction. It's not run or mobile home stuff. But it's really around innovative construction, where the do build multi very big large developments, they will winery buildings, they build low income housing buildings that really can house like 80 unit apartment buildings at the same time. And just like how you said, and what's interesting is I did interview someone that's from Europe, where it's so much more popular to have manufactured housing, because they have less regulation, they're able to really advance their construction way faster. And it's kind of curious sometimes how I guess the universe plays a little bit with us, my wife and I are looking to, you know, the United States, and we have obviously still family in Germany. And so we looked at the map where somebody kind of moved Europe over around the globe, as if it were like a ball to super impose it over North America to see where would that actually be we found out, for example, that Florida is kind of, if you look at it from a European perspective is about the same place like Egypt, right. But it also means like places in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and stuff like that way north and Canada, and most people don't realize that. But the reason I also brought it up with a European perspective is that because of how much further knows most of Europe is that period of time in the year when you can reasonably actually build a traditional house is typically quite a bit shorter, right? So it's super appealing to say, Okay, we build all the pieces in a factory or year round, where we don't have to worry about weather, and then we put it on a trailer as soon as the sun comes out. And in five days, the whole thing is there, which you couldn't traditionally never do. Even if you have a great framing who and all that kind of stuff, it takes several months, right? Well, if you only have four months in the summer, so that you can actually bid and the rest of the year is kind of rainy. And then this makes a huge difference. Obviously, go ahead, add to that real quick is that everything that we own the laptop, iPad, the iPhone, the cars are all built in factory on an assembly line right, in a very fast fashion. And that's how we keep things affordable and sellable. The only thing that's been behind in America is the construction element. We transport labor on site, we have so much waste that sort of thing, however, now are starting to realize that it can be built in factories, and you can hire people to work long term. And with safer jobs, because they have all their tools there, they have all the protection there and all the inspectors there as well, that we can build so much faster without worrying about the weather in the year, and being able to build more efficient and cheaper housing. Right. And I do want to touch on one thing too, about the concern because there's another myth that you talked about, about how with in mobile home parks that if the park decides to redevelop or that sort of thing or sell, there's a lot of government control, it's kind of like eminent domain where if the city needs your location, they're not just going to take that house from you without giving you any value back, they are required to pay you what the market value is, and plus more if there's cost to be able to relocate you, which does happen and here and there. It's pretty difficult to close and redevelop a park. But I have seen cases where they have and they actually ended up with more than what their home would have sold for if it were to be sold. Right. So that's that's one thing that I think is a myth. It's very misunderstood as well, because I also wouldn't put money putting in there if there's a possibility for a redevelopment and just losing your home. Right. Right. Understood. Yeah, that's great that you clarify that now one of the other method I wanted to touch on real quick and maybe it is or maybe it isn't. I've heard this actually on bigger pockets because Brandon, What's his last name? The guy on bigger pockets with a B and he basically was a few years ago in the process of buying a mobile home park and one of the things that he mentioned was that there supposedly is some law or something out there that kind of forbids the development of new mobile home parks. Is that true or not true what can you say? Forbids development of new mobile home parks is that what your saying? Yeah basically to say okay, I want to buy a piece of land and then go to the Zoning Commission and say okay, I want this to be a mobile home park. You have campgrounds you can have residential zoning, or combined zoning cover all the different zonings but supposedly at some point in the past, the government said no zoning for new but no mobile home parks is no longer out there. I didn't I never checked so I wanted to ask you if that's true. So there are many areas like in California it's very difficult to build out a new mobile home park. It's not, you know, I'm part of the government lobbying, I'm very involved with that, too. And there's a lot of just like how we talked about there's a lot of false stigmas. And people don't want to have a mobile, quote, mobile home park in their cities because of those false stigmas. Now, I have a really good friend that's building a park out in Montana. Also, I have a friend that is building a park in Texas and North Carolina, is, you know, there are counties and cities that are against building new parks. But you know, there are some cities that are more innovative or more open minded than others that really, anyone that's building more housing to bring people into their city will take action on that. The truth is, it's as an investor standpoint, it's not always the best thing to, you know, if you can build townhouses and sell them, that's always going to be more profitable. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my dream, and I'm probably too old to ever realize it, maybe we have somebody like you young enough to balance that out. But my dream has always been to take the fundamental understanding of what you describe to be manufactured housing in a factory, whether it's tiny houses, but I'd much rather like to have what you're doing like modern, high quality, well equipped and durable mobile homes in something that I would call an eco village where mobile home parks all across the country that I've ever seen is basically sardines, and again, right like, absolutely Ultra maximizing so that you if you reach out the window, you can basically touch the next bailant next to you. And my understanding of one of those eco villages would be more like if you were to convert a large campground where each house has a little bit of a lot of little bit of space around it, which also then from an ecological perspective, allows for people to be off grid to be sustainable to grow some stuff, you know, all those kinds of things that you can do in a mobile home park in the traditional sense, because you literally have typically asphalt, utility connections, and then one sitting next to the and to the next one, and even the little bigger ones, when you put a double wide on it. And again, one was reaching the next one next to it. So I don't know if there's an opportunity for that, because you're right, if somebody puts like townhouses, the the developers perspective, and money making is obviously way, way more efficient, but from our quality of life, which is always important to me. And from an environmental perspective, I think it would be much nicer to build these eco villages that people actually want to live in, and then a self sustaining and potentially off grid. So I don't know if that's possible by maybe that's a compromise between like purely mobile home park or purely residential development, it is possible and what what we're starting to find out lately is there's a lot of big job migrations and factory like Tesla factories, for example, that are that are building these really fast factories that don't have neighboring homes next to it. And I'm actually working, they can't talk too much about with some park owners that are looking to develop quick parks, where we can back quickly built into those parks, and we're consulting for them to kind of build those quickly and people are going to, it's coming. It's you'll see it more often. And totally like, I'd love to partner with you on something like that if it ever comes about, but it's it's definitely the best way to build out new housing in factories. So before we close, I think it's important for our audience members, to hear you say a little bit the range of like the smallest to the largest, the lowest price to the highest price that you guys are offering and maybe a word or two about what the financing options are. Yes. So keep in mind, like these costs that I'm going to say is really just based off the Bay Area, but there are cheaper areas that are outside where the ratio is a lot smaller. You know, I'm sure there's people from Texas that are like 300k for mobile home, there's no way right so but you know, but it's different in in every area but in San Jose, you know, we work with people that are that need to be really entry level and we'll still help them with the old mobile homes as far as purchasing those and those low end are typically can be like about $80,000 for single wide or about like $160,000 for a double wide like an old 1970s home an average price for a mobile home itself. A brand new ones that we build in this area of San Jose is about like 370,000 There are higher higher end areas that we've helped with, for example, like there's Malibu, a project that we were a part of that one sold for $1.1 million, right? Where, you know, there's areas like that where that's kind of weighing less than the average home in their San Diego. I would say average new homes are about like $330,000 but to get to the financing you'll typically find about a 10% down, and your average gross rent is about$1,000. Your average mortgage is about 2000 to $2,400. But you definitely realize and look at every decision for anyone is always has to be customized, right? If you're coming from renting and paying $3,500, then this is the right choice for you. Right? If you have the option to buy single family, then go for it. But you know, if you can't, and this might be a good stepping stone to get you there, then you should definitely consider it. Yeah, I'm totally with you, I would actually be a little more extreme than you are on that. And I've said this in multiple shows and written about it in very high priced areas. Pretty much most of California at least as long as it's within like 50 miles or so of the of the beach, I would recommend for people to go with something like you were just describing what you're actually doing what you're helping people to do, not only because it gets you in, but also because you can then say, okay, if I have one of those better jobs, and before we started recording, I was kind of joking around in San Francisco in the city, if you make less than$103,000, you are eligible for rent support by the government, right. So I use that example with somebody who makes maybe around that number, maybe like 9000 $10,000 a month. Now, if you're somewhere in the Midwest, you would say, well, that's crazy, was making that kind of money. But if everything else costs two or three times more, not just housing, but everything else, then you also need to make that kind of money even to just get by now, if somebody has those costs, then you just mentioned 3500. And let's say they spend another 3500, for living. So they have 7000, but they make nine, they now have$2,000 every month that they can actually accumulate and make investments in more affordable areas and supplement and ultimately generate passive income if they were to go for this. And this is why I'm saying I'm more extreme in those highly high cost areas in California or in New York or in Massachusetts, I would say go for that stuff that Frank offers. So you can ultimately become an investor. Because if you don't, if you really go for that single family home in that high price area, you will never become an MS. Even if you could afford it don't do it. I have so many people my age that really are chasing that dream of homeownership and one step that I gotta say, because there's so many people that do this and make this mistake is they chase that dream of homeownership, and they get that one home in an expensive area, like you're talking about. And then they become house poor, you know, they didn't realize or calculate that this is going to be $8,000 a month, and I have to keep working and maybe even get a second job to pay off the house that I'm living in. That isn't really giving me a big cash flow. It happens all the time. And people who really need guidance from you from us to really map out what is their actual goal? Is it just to own a home? Or is it to be financially free to be able to do whatever you'd like to do, you know? Yeah, totally. And I mean, I would actually encourage you if you run across any of those friends or people that you come by the chase that they come to me after they made the mistake. Yeah, well, but the point what I'm what I'm trying to say is you can send them to me. But the point is, what I'm getting at is what we only there's only a tiny little bit of change necessary in mindset to get in that tiny little bit of change is home ownership is basically owning housing, right? I own housing. And that tiny little adjustment, especially for people in affluent areas, in my opinion, is to say nobody says that when you own housing that you have to move in there. Yeah. But as soon as you make that tiny adjustment to say I want to chase home ownership to own housing, but it doesn't have to be for me, it could be owning housing that I make available to others, that still every investor that works with us owns one or more houses to provide for other people. And sometimes oftentimes, they also own one for themselves. But the idea of home ownership is not limited to only you're only a homeowner if you move in yourself. So that tiny little difference, I think is really important for people to realize. So before we go, it's Franco, I want to ask you the two questions that I asked everybody at the end of our show that don't have anything to do with manufacturing houses or real estate or anything like that. If you could meet anybody you wanted to who would it be and why? oh boy, alive or dead or Yeah, past or present? You know, for me, I feel like it'd be Steve Jobs. I feel like he's a very good innovator and thinks of things very differently and how how he leads to I'm a big proponent of how he's built what he's built. So I was say Steve Jobs for that. Okay, very cool. And then the other question is, if you had a time machine, you could go forward and backward any way you want. You're not allowed to change the so called time space continuum, but you can go anywhere. Where would you go and why? A time machine? Man? I can say that a lot of things. Well, I mean, you know, it's interesting. I'm a very grateful person, and like, how you said, how the universe can access to right. You know, I, what's interesting is the struggles I've been through, as far as my dad believing I can say, like, I wish I had that life of like having both parents and that sort of thing. But the truth of it is, is that that part of my life was a hardest one of the hardest parts of my life. But going through that struggle is really what made me passionate and made me hardworking and driven to who I am today. And I, I feel like I wouldn't change anything. I feel like but, but unless it was like, I wish I could have done this or built this sooner. But if I did it sooner, I don't feel like I would be as driven as I am today. Yeah, I wouldn't change anything, honestly. Okay, well, that's fine. Nobody says you have to jump in. Even though you might own one. You don't have to use it, right. It's one of those things you can put in the garage and say, hey, my mind never changes. So that's where it was really fun to talk to you. I think it's an important component. I mean, I always say our myself and our investors have other people to have nice housing. And in residential real estate, you're actually one step ahead of that by actually building and supporting people to build these these units. So I'm grateful for what you do. If people say, Okay, I'm in that situation. I'm somewhere in California, I'm somewhere where is really pretty much unaffordable to ever really have my own place. Unless I find somebody like Franco, how can they get in touch with you? Yeah, all our stuff is on www.franco.tv. Our company is called Franco mobile homes. Yeah, you'll find us on YouTube, Instagram, that sort of thing. So okay. And we're always each and answer any questions around this at any time? Yeah, absolutely. That's very cool. We put obviously, all of that in, in the show notes. And we also want to probably get the link to your podcast so people can just jump after they listen to this one. They can then go and listen to you. So Franco, thank you so much for being on the show. It was a lot of fun. And maybe we can do it again sometime. Absolutely. And thanks for having me. And thanks for what you do too. Thank you. Thanks for listening. And I hope you enjoyed today's episode of the The IDEAL Investor Show more info and the links we mentioned during the show in the show notes or you can go to our website at IDEO redcross.com and sign up for the Apple podcast link. And if you'd like to talk to me sign up for strategy call. Hopefully you want to share what you learned with your network and bring more people in we are really eager to hear your comments and until next time, be well stay safe and ciao.