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Who is the Guest?
Brent Bowers is an investor and coach with a focus on buying and selling vacant land. As an Army Officer with over 8 years of service, Brent was spending a great deal of time away from his family, and he knew he needed to make some changes in order to be more present with his wife and children. In a short period of time, Brent was able to expand his business, hire a team, and (most importantly) spend quality time with his family while still working hard and helping others.
While Brent invests in many different types of real estate, his favorite investment strategy deals with buying and selling vacant land, and he enjoys sharing his expertise in this area with his coaching clients. Brent chooses to live his life based on Bob Burg’s quote, “Your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people’s interests first.” He is passionate about helping other people find success in real estate investing, particularly in land investments.
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Hello, today, we want to talk with brand powers brand is a guy who has basically invested in real estate and learned that not every kind of investment in real estate is the same. And so he looked around. And if you really think about it, you'll find there's a lot of land nowadays that previous generations owned or had a farm on or stuff like that. And it gets inherited by the next generation or maybe two generations further. And oftentimes people have moved, they don't even live in the area, and so forth, and so forth. So the question becomes, what is happening with this land? Now, Brent is going to explain the details to us. But what is really interesting, and I want you to pay attention and listen closely is how can you generate the cash flow a passive income stream by buying and selling land. So that's what we're going to talk about, and you can't make more of it. So land is one of those things other than residential real estate, as we always talk about that is a real treat to own. Hello and welcome to another episode of The IDEAL Investor Show we are in season two. And as you all know, season two, the special thing that we do differently than in season one is we actually want to talk about cash flow generating cash flow and small variants about that like including, for example, how do we do passive income and we have a special guest to help us understand what is another one of the options that some people may not think so much about it. And that special guest is Brand Bowers and we will talk a little bit about the high interest rates but obviously also learn what does he do? What does he do with his clients? And why is this another great supplement to investing in real estate investing? So Brian, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. Axel. Yeah, absolutely. I'm really glad that we could make it work. So to start out, and I've kind of come to enjoy listening to what I call the original story. So maybe if you don't mind, tell us a little bit. How did you get into being a land shark and doing what you're doing these days? Yeah, so the origin story, I started in real estate and 2007. I had just gotten my real estate license, I bought that first rental property. I knew that one day I wanted to be a you know, real estate tycoon, rich investor. And I got my lunch handed to me, I got my teeth kicked in, in 2008-2009. Because the real estate market was going like, you know, in the dumps, and I know a lot of people made money back then. But I quit. I threw in the towel. I watched 30 year veterans in the business getting out. So I was like, I got that in my head. I threw in the towel big quitter. So I chose an easier career path. The military, got to Germany for about three years, and was on multiple combat deployments to Afghanistan. And I was like, Okay, I'm always gone. I'm always away, I was trying to be a family man, the first marriage, you know, definitely failed miserably because I was always gone and then met the woman of my dreams. We got married, the army actually had sent me to college, and we had babies. And here I am on gearing up for deployment number three for another nine months and a combat zone, but you have to prep and basically prepare for about a year. So you're like gone in the field. So you basically never see your family, you get in some of these units. And I started looking for answers. How can I get monthly passive income that will build a fortress of financial fortress around my family that nothing will ever get through. And my bills were pretty inexpensive back then they were like 4500 a month. And I started buying and selling vacant raw land. And I was charging 0% interest. Excellent. I'll talk about that a little bit more. But now we're charging 12% interest. And we can talk about that more on the interest rate side of things. But these higher interest rates are actually helping me in multiple ways. But yeah, we have passive income. Now I think we collected roughly $18,000 Last month, we should collect about 21,000 this month in passive income. And that's if we don't flip any land or assign the contract on any land. That's just our payments we get every month. Yeah, that's really cool. And I definitely for the benefit of our audience want to dive into what you do and how you do it and why it can be such a powerful tool to have that basically enhance besides the things that we recommend and some other people that do recommend real estate investing in some other diversification towards you said in 2007 when you saw that you kind of got something handed to you that made you quit, can you go a little deeper and tell the audience what that was or what basically, I mean people probably recall the financial crisis 2008 through 2010 and, you know, these kind of badly assigned mortgages, I would say it's probably one part. But there's a difference right between people that actually purchase or get offered to purchase a property for owner occupancy versus investing. So I would be curious to hear and I don't want to open old wounds, but just in a nutshell, real quick, what was the thing that you didn't plan for that you got surprised by? Yeah, so 2007, I actually went from being a business owner got my real estate license, I bought that first rental property, I actually thought being a real estate agent would help me be an investor. Ultimately, I wanted to be an investor. And you know, the mortgage meltdown kind of stopped things pretty fast. For me, I had handed over the business, it was a lawn business, we were mowing grass, and handed that over to my dad. And I was making pretty good money. I was, you know, making several $1,000 a month with my lawn business. And I just bought that first house and rented it out. And me and my fairly new wife, we had actually just gotten married as well. And we moved to the coast in West Palm Beach. And ultimately, it got so bad for me, I wasn't making any money in the real estate business. I was driving people around for like weeks at a time just to find them a rental house, and I was maybe making$300 per rental deal. So that was not enough to pay the mortgage, or actually to pay my rent. So I had to call my landlord said, Look, I can't afford it. So he moved in with my in laws and to a pretty small house. And I was ultimately getting very humble, I went from business owner to real estate license to rental property to I can't afford to even pay my rent, I need to move in with my in laws. So that's kind of what happened, you know that things weren't moving, things weren't selling too quickly, we're still in that downward market, to where it was going to level off. And if I would have just held on for another year, or maybe figured out some creative strategies, knowing what I know, now, I would have flourished in that market. But I was just, you know, wet behind the ears and just gave up too quickly. Yeah, thank you. And thanks for being willing to talk a little bit about that. The reason I wanted to check in with that is I think it sounds to me and tell me if I'm wrong about that, that your purchase of investment rental property was separate from you basically working as an agent or somebody in real estate trying to sell real estate to make a commission. So if that's true, how did that rental actually perform? Yeah, the rental actually performed okay, but you know, my mortgage was $750 a month, I was renting it out for 950. So 859 50, that's really only $200 A month this over, really discretionary income. And here's the thing about rental properties, you know, that something's always going to break every six to nine months, it seems like and this house it did, I ended up having to pull out a home equity line of credit, because, you know, so many things went wrong with it. And I had to fix those things. And so I was there was no way I was living off of that extra$200 a month. No, absolutely that makes a lot of sense. And that's actually one good thing. If you remember from when I introduced basically our show for today and the shows and season two, the reason that we basically call it the overall topic, title cash flow is because there really so many different aspects that influence cash flow. So only we believe we should only invest in residential real estate Even today, when you take the mortgage. So principal interest, property tax and property management plus the reserve for vacancy, capital expenditures and maintenance, and then hopefully, at least at the start have 100 to 250 $200 a month. So when that is the deal, and it's obviously harder to find these days than it was maybe five years ago. But then it's at least a good starting point. Because those things that can go wrong, like you said, every six months, something happened. That's what these other 15% of the rent for and if the rent is not high enough, and the reason I wanted to ask for our audience is I've been writing and speaking about lately about the fact that because it's harder for people nowadays, to actually get into houses for their own occupation or buying a house to live in it. That means more of those people are basically potentially our tenants, right. And so from that perspective, having a situation where buying a house, whether it's a financial crisis, or it's high interest rates and high inflation and those kinds of things, whatever that circumstance is, that makes it harder for owner occupants to buy a house is typically a good thing for us as investors if we either own houses that we can rent or we add to our portfolio with new houses. Now, before we go into, you know, the impact of interest rates. Tell us in the audience, please a little bit about how does this thing work with purchasing land and then also getting income out of land purchases? Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'll keep it really simple. What I do is I like to go in and see where the demand Is that where the land is selling. You can look at that on Zillow or Redfin by going to the filters, selecting sold, looking in the last three months selecting land, and you can generally see pockets or little cluster patterns or what I like to call them or if you're on Zillow, it's Zillow, red yellow dots. If it's on red fin, it's two red dots. And then you can kind of figure out what that land is going for what it's actually selling or trading for. And then if you click on all of them that have sold, and I'm trying to micro this down to neighborhoods, that's where people mess up, I believe they go in the county, or sometimes the zip code. But if you can get into a neighborhood, you can really see the price per square foot, or the price per acre of what this land is selling for. But here's another thing you see, you see what size parcel is in high demand, Okay, this one's a half acre, this one's a half acre, this one's a half acre, this one's one acre, half acre, half acre, okay, half acre is in demand, we got it. And then another cool thing is, if you scroll down a little bit more, you see who it was listed by and who it was bought by, that's the real estate agent. Sometimes you won't see that because it didn't sell with a real estate agent. But what you want to see is once you'll eventually see a pattern, like Bill Brown is the guy that sells all the land in this area. So that is your subject matter expert to help you in that area as well. Once you figure that out, you go to like, you know, something like prop stream or list source wherever you pull your data from Agent Pro 247. All the vacant land parcels and mail these landowners a very specific offer, I call it my lol my land offer letter or laugh out loud, we mailed them in the actual purchase agreement, sometimes 50 cents on the dollar, or sometimes 20 cents on the depending on where it's at. And really, you don't have to be at 50 cents on the dollar. If they're higher price parcels. If they're like six $700,000 parcels of land like you're in a very expensive area, you could probably offer 85 cents on the dollar and still have $100,000 spread easy on land. So if anybody wants that land offer letter, they can go to the land sharks.com forward slash lol as a land offer letter and you can download it or I'm sorry, we'll email to you. But that's really the whole thing. And what do we do to sell this land to make money on it? Because this is where you had mentioned before the recording virtually there's no competition because people don't realize that we can cashflow on land. And your audiences are like wow, well, if you buy it at a big enough discount, I get it for say 30,000 It's worth 90,000. Well, Axel, would you be interested in purchasing this thing for 90,000? I'll let you make payments for $550 a month for the next 30 years. Because Americans think how much is it going to cost each month not what's the total price even though we're selling it for what it's actually worth. So we're selling our land faster. Interest rates don't matter because banks really don't finance this kind of land anyways, because it's kind of in a, you know, inefficient area for these banks. They'd rather do three $400,000. And they'd rather do it on houses and apartments and bigger commercial stuff. But that's where we make 218 19 $20,000 a month is getting those payments coming in every single month. And I didn't start there. I started with a$285 parcel and sold it for 5000 and got 400 a month for that one. And then we just continuously built up built up our snowball. And now I just the other day I got a little board here, you can't see it. But we borrowed 40 grand from my mother in law, we're paying her 9% interest. But the day we purchased that land, we had a sold for 90,000. So my mother in law is that less than 50 cents on the dollar for a lender. So she's in pretty good position. We're paying her 9% We're gonna pay her off in five years, my buyer won't pay off until 13 years. So mother in law's paid off in five years after she's paid off. I keep that $946 a month. So we'll make 100 grand on that deal. And I had none of my own money into it. Okay, well, not everybody may have a mother in law like that. But so just to clarify, I mean, obviously, when we drive around, there's all kinds of different kinds of lands and different kinds of zoning for land and stuff like that. So it sounded like but I wanted to kind of ask to make sure that we got it right. When you talk about land. Are you talking about land that can ultimately in its own zoned in a way that somebody can put something on it? Or is it just any kind of piece? I prefer vacant residential, I've purchased some agriculture not a ton. I purchased some commercial, not a lot, but I really go after the vacant residential because there's just a bigger buyer pool for that. Right. Okay. And so with that in mind, who would somebody who is buying a piece of land and pays a monthly pay off so to speak to ultimately own the piece of land? Where are they ultimately planning to sell it to them? A lot of times they're buying it for themselves. I'm really selling to the retail buyer for my first several parcels was from truck drivers. It was non buildable land because it was you know, like in Colorado Springs where I was stationed in the military. I purchased several parcels that were just under the 5000 square foot size. So you had to Have 5000 square foot that build in El Paso County. Well, some of these were 4000. Some are 3500 square foot truck drivers would buy this land for me and park on it. Every time they come through. Another guy just wanted to hunt on the land. It was actually surrounded by state lands, he actually had to trespass to get to the land, but he didn't care. He was going to work through that. And he got an attorney to get his ingress egress entrance and exit plan through there. So you name it all kinds of people. I've got another guy just wants to have a peace of America. I've got college students that purchase land, every state they go to they live in their RV, and they do their school virtually, because they use the what do you call it? The satellite internet that? Darling? There you go. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Now, you said the deal, if I understand it, right is in finding suitable passes through the process you describe, and then making an offer that is below basically what we in the residential place would call a market rate? Why are under what circumstances based on your experience? Do people who own the land be willing to sell it for less than it's potentially worth? No, that's such a great question. I mean, I don't know why I kind of stopped asking why there's pawn shops all over Florida. And I never understood why someone would take in a Rolex or a gun and get like five cents on the dollar for it. And these are loans. So they're getting a loan, but most of the time, they never come back. So the pawn shop sells their stuff. So it's just the speed and the convenience and the ease of it. Sometimes these people inherit this land, sometimes they bought it 20 years ago, and they were gonna build their second home or their cabin on it. And life happened for them. They they had children, and those children had children, and now they're paying, you know, for those colleges have those children, and they just never did it. And they look back 20 years later, like, oh, my gosh, we got this letter from Brent, he's offering us $20,000 For this land, honey, we should take it Christmas is coming. You know, I'm sick of paying these back taxes. We're never gonna move out there anyways, your sister lives close by, I can't stand your sister. Let's just sell the land. Yeah, I get that point. And actually, you triggered something that I had been meaning to us anyway, in that same context. I mean, to the best of my knowledge, if you own a piece of land, there is some level of property tax on it typically. And if you don't pay it, then ultimately county or the state or some kind of government agency or authority can take it away. You know, I think they in California, it takes like three or four years before they can actually ultimately auction it off. But what I believe the audience might be interested in so this owner that is getting your LOL, at least once a year, I would assume has been getting their property taxpayer to be reminded, okay, you still own this piece of land, and you have to pay the property tax. So besides that being a trigger to say, hey, I have no other use for it other than paying once a year. How important is it that other than having to pay that bill, there is no connection to that piece of land? There's really not there's not emotional ties. It's not like buying a home from someone. This is why I bought many houses I fixed up houses that wholesaled houses. And it was the hardest thing in the world. To get people to accept a lowball offer a low price offer for their house. They had their three children that grew up in there. They never replaced the carpet. They never painted. They're hoarders but they people hear like all the time, except for when Robert Kiyosaki says no, you're wrong. Your house is your biggest investment. And what do investments do? They increase in value. So we should never sell our investment for less than what we pay? We should sell it for more. So people have that in their minds when they buy a house. But when they inherited a piece of land, or they have bought a piece of land many years ago, sometimes they'll let it go for way less than what they actually paid for it. It's not beating their head and they'd never lived there. They don't visit it. They get that once a year that reminder. Oh gosh, we got to pay for this freakin property taxes. And it's just it's unemotional. I don't have to go and sit on their, their dirty stinky cat pee couch to negotiate with them why they should sell their house to me at 65 cents on the dollar. And there's the roofs caving, and I'm like, do you see this? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's kind of what I always call the ugly duckling in the neighborhood that the turnkey providers need to buy and fix up before we buy it. And so we've been there too. One other thing that I think might be interesting and important for the audience is you said there's all kinds of land out there, obviously, you know, like truck drivers using it to park or other people using it for hunting and so forth. Are there any luck because I mean, I'm really asking this on behalf of the audience. Are there any categories where you would say okay, if you have the choice or if you are intrigued and you want to get into this go mainly or look for this? I mean, obviously they want to take your course no question right. But even with that is that particular kind of land that is preferable over others? The majority, the average land deals I do they're all under 10 acres. You know, really I'm lately I've been doing a lot of infill lots like closer to the city, when I started, I used to do stuff in the middle of nowhere. Now that stuff, you can buy a way cheaper, way less money, and you can three extra money, you can 10 extra money. So you buy it for 2000, you can sell it for like 10,002 468, that's 5x and my money, it's great, right? But here's the thing, you got to work a little harder to sell that stuff, you got to put it on Craigslist and Facebook, maybe put some signs out, contact the neighbors, because a lot of times the neighbors will buy it from you. But when you get a little closer to the city, and you don't have to be in the city, you could be an hour outside of the city, and a little higher dollar price like over you know, 20,000 or so the realtors will help you sell that. So I like to be kind of in between, I like to be like 30 minutes outside of the city. If possible, I'll buy the stuff right in the city, that stuff goes quick, especially if you get a discount on it. And you know, there's way bigger buyer pool and the real estate agents help you and when you offer your seller financing, that's when it really gets exciting. So the answer your question, I like to be just kind of like teeter tottering right outside of the city, if possible. But I'll tell you, I'll pretty much purchase any parcel of land that there's a good profit in. And you know, going back to what you said, you kind of struck a nerve when you said not everyone has a mother in law like mine, you know, I'm very, very fortunate. But she had to watch me for almost five years buying and selling this land before she started lending to me, I didn't know she had the money. But here's the thing, when I first started buying these parcels, I didn't have the money to buy them. So I'd have to partner with people that had self directed IRAs, or I would, you know, get the LOL under contract, I'd get the land under contract, and I would assign it to someone like you Axel that you know wanted to build on the land, I would get it under contract for like 15,000 and then assign it to you for 25 because the land was worth 35,000 and make it quick$10,000. And I just kept building my bank account and you know, paying off my credit cards and things like that. And then another strategy, the last one, it will there's many strategies that sell a slam. But the coolest one is when you buy for 5000 It's worth 15,000. And you find a buyer that can do a$5,000 downpayment and pay you 200 a month for the next five years, then you get your investment back out of the deal. And you're profitable immediately that first rental property took me a long time to be profitable on it. Absolutely. And I mean, one of the things that I thought in preparation of our conversation today was okay, and I can use my own example for that. When I first started out investing into the residential real estate properties, basically rental properties, and you hold them for a while and you maybe I'm willing to say I was somewhat lucky that I started 2018 2019 and stuff like that to really seriously invest Well, then. And I believe nobody can really predict what the market is going to do when everybody knows the following few years real estate prices, especially in the residential area went up significantly. But then when you flip it around and say okay, why so my $85,000 rental property that I bought went up somewhere in the Midwest to 105. And that's great in and of itself, even though we didn't buy it to get the appreciation, we bought it and do it for cash flow. But now I have 15,000 or 20,000 of equity sitting in there. That's really not enough to buy another house. But I was thinking okay, well, if we hang book up which brand that is kind of like mother in law kind of money, you know, so so that could be something for some of the members of the audience who say, Well, I have a few of these houses and they don't have huge equity because they weren't that expensive to begin with. But the equity to activate it, that would be potentially an opportunity. Now one thing I wanted to tap into a creek brand I saw when I prepared and went to your website that you're offering the course for people to learn how to do it. Can you beyond that? Are there any other things that if somebody says, Well, I want to learn about it? But does brand also offer something to help me to actually bind the properties by the property? So the properties besides taking a course? Are you basically taking people by the hand and lead them through this a few times or something along those lines? Yeah, absolutely. We obviously offer the course the video modules to show you the actual steps to take you know really in detail how to pick the market, how to find landowners how to price the land, how to mail the owners what to say when they call you and then how to sell it. And then also we do some multiple support calls each week as well. As you know, we had the forum we can answer questions all day long, because you're gonna have success in this really quickly. But there's always gonna be more questions to ask. That's I'm talking to the guy that's been to so many seminars, where are those guys during the week when I'm like calling them because I can't? Well, I think in my experience as a mentor for the residential investments, it's really the fear of losing the money not because it was from the get go a bad idea, but just because you didn't consider this and you didn't consider this and no He had actually yet told you that that comes later in the course and stuff like that. So, you know, that's I think, where the benefit of having access and having somebody like I said was holding the clients and to say, Okay, well, let me take you through a few and after the third one is probably not that hard to keep going on your own. Absolutely. Yeah. My goal is to get you at least three land deals. Once I get you there. You're rolling. You're like addicted. I just had Alana. She's a single mother of four just did her fourth land deal. Well, her third one is when she got addicted $28,000 net profit deal, and that's changing her life for a single mom of four, four kids. But you know, I'm also every single day on Tik Tok. I just started tick tock, I do a video every day teaching how to invest in vacant raw land. Follow me at Brent L. Bowers. And then also we talked about the wholesaling, Inc podcast, I interview my students, I've hold their feet to the fire. So we give free information how to do a land deal, because I'm asking how many mailers did it take? How did you sell this thing? What did you make? So it's a fun time? Yeah, that's really cool. Now let's pivot a little bit to this component that we wanted to touch on that you had basically chosen as part of our season two series, and that is talking about high interest rates. So what have you learned? And what can you tell the audience what the impact of the really massive like, what I mean, now a time so so the interest rate that we had 15 months ago, so... Yeah, I'll tell you. July is when I saw the interest rates really start to affect people. And I noticed the housing market kind of really slowed down. And now it's going down, like I saw on Fox News in the gym this morning, housing sales plummeting. Well, here's what happens with land, it follows really closely to the housing market. And what do builders and developers need to build on that's vacant raw land? Well, as the building slows down, so to the land sales, and here's what I'm already seeing from land sellers, they're already seeing it, they're watching Fox News, they see prices going down, I'm starting to see deals, deals I didn't see eight months ago, because they see the signs popping up, they see people taking longer to sell land to where now they're open to selling at a way bigger discount. But number two, they're also willing to sell or finance me the land at principle payments, aka I just said 0% interest. So hey, Mr. Seller, I can't give you 50,000 for that land, but what I can do is I can give you, I can give you 30,000. And I can pay you $1,000 a month for 30 months. How does that sound? Okay, I'm getting $30,000 Deal. Plus I'm paying 1000 A month 0% interest. Now that might be a little high, that might be a little crazy. But here's all I have to do, I have to find a buyer that's willing to do like a $5,000 downpayment and pay me 1100 a month, and they buy it for 40. So I'm gonna make money in the beginning, I'm gonna make money every single month and make money and it's kind of like a sandwich lease option that people teach about. So I'm seeing those also seen land and foreclosure already. Oh, really, I didn't see that. You didn't see that in the past two and a half years. I haven't seen that in a while. And then here's another thing when we sell the land, we're charging anywhere from nine to 12% interest. Well, people are not like shuttering when they see 12% interest because well, it cost me 7% 6% To buy a house. So land, you know, why not pay a little bit more. But we did a sale the other day, we like lowered it down to 4% and blew some land out real quick. But people were freaking out, oh, my gosh, only 4%? Well, there was a time when I first started buying and selling land, I only charged 0% interest because I thought oh, that's the reason why they'll buy for me is 0% interest, I must have did 25 or 30 notes before I started charging, like 4% 5% interest. So it's been really fun to play with that interest game. It's like printing money, it really is. I agree with you. The other thing to keep in mind is I mean, we not just have increased interest rates, we also have quite a substantial amount of inflation, not potentially in the value assets so much, at least not right now we had in the past few years until the markets changed. But the inflation also just generally means that the value of money is going down. So I think you have every right and us the same thing to say okay, well, if you want me to do something over a period of time, and in that period of time, the value of that money goes down by 5% 8% 9% or so forth, and you should be compensated right. I always like to put it a little bit that way, because it's not really charging it just retaining the value of the money, you know, from when you first start until you actually maybe flip the deal or sell it to somebody or whatever their circumstance may be. Yeah, I mean, we talked about my mother in law lending. That was the biggest reason for it is because they had the money in a safe like or in the bank or whatever earning 0% interest. So my father in law was looking at like my 100k is now worth it's now worth like 90k Right. So he's getting interest, and then the people that are buying the land from us are doing something called land banking, because the land is actually outrunning inflation. You're at least making it neutral. I have a good friend, she's the CEO for United Way, she just came back from a cruise and there was 346 Land bankers on that cruise, they got to bring their spouses and their children because they had the best year ever. It's because they were able to call rich people and get them to put watching him say rich people, they basically acted like Wall Street called people with money, doing nothing in bank accounts, or maybe in the stock market and gotten the move that money into land that they're going to sit on for 10 or 15 years. So their money doesn't deflate. Yeah, that's awesome. And I think that's an important component to realize right now in this day and age that we are in. And I mean, if I'm listening correctly, to what those who have the levers on the interest rate are saying, We're nowhere near being done. So it's probably gonna continue to go for a little while, at least at this level, maybe even a little higher. So I think we really kind of peel the onion a little bit of what it is, then it can start with relatively low amounts, and then go up with just one deal or two deals, and then keep increasing multiple dudes getting addicted, all those kinds of things. So if somebody says, Well, what brand is doing and getting into the real estate market without having, you know, multiple 10s of 1000s of dollars in a savings account already? How do they get in touch with you? What would be the best way to maybe connect and see how somebody that is intrigued now not addicted, but intrigued? How can they get in touch with you? Yeah, thanks for asking. Excellent I'll tell you I was a guy with high debt I owed American Express and Capital One quite a bit of money and I didn't have any time either because I was an Army officer. So you can do this with very little money very little time very little resources. If you have a big enough why my why was to get out of the military to answer your question to reach out to me on Instagram Brent L. Bowers, or hit me up on Tik Tok Brent L. Bowers. Yeah, that's really great. And one thing that I recently saw on medium where I always once a week, try to post an article where somebody said the thing that you want to find out to do besides what you kind of have to do to afford your life and all those things that you just mentioned, is something where you can say I'm doing it because I'm obsessed, right? And so that's actually the fun part because then it doesn't matter if it's late at night or on the weekend, or during Presidents Day or anything like that. So I thought that was an intriguing thought for people to say, Okay, if I wanted to get into something in real estate, and I don't have a lot of money, what could I be obsessed about? And I think what you guys do, Brad could be one of those things. So thank you for being on the show. One more time. How can they get in touch with you? Yeah, you can head on over to the land sharks.com If you want me to hold your hand and show you how to build the actual land business that serves you and your family or hit me up on Instagram or Tiktok Brent L. Bowers Ellison land. Yeah, that makes total sense. So thank you for being on the show brand and as I say at the end of the show, every show is be well stay safe. And we'll see you next time. God bless. Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoyed today's episode of the The IDEAL Investor Show more info and the links we mentioned during the show in the show notes or you can go to our website at Idea wealth grow a.com and sign up for the Apple podcast link. And if you'd like to talk to me sign up for a strategy call. Hopefully you want to share what you learned with your network and bring more people in we are really eager to hear your comments and until next time, be well stay safe and ciao.